[BaronChairman]

One of the things that really snapped at my attention about the Quran and hadith and sunnah is the prevalence of descriptions of Paradise.

Certainly the Bible speaks of eternal life, and there's that famous passage at the end of Revelations about the New Jerusalem and River of Life. But the Bible doesn't exactly dwell on the hereafter. Throughout it, there's very little describing any kind of life after death.

This is a major difference from the Islamic scriptures, in which descriptions of the world to come are abundant, painfully exacting, and most notably, they appear to appeal to the base desires of man. Instead of being tailored for man, it's just assumed that everyone is being given everything he or she would ever want and that this eternal bliss is endless. It's the same with Hellfire - we get descriptions of the torture without any regard for potential masochism.

I've defined this as a carrot and stick mentality because you're being lured toward one and trying to avoid the other. But the bigger picture means that if these descriptions are real, then it looks like Islam is eerily materialistic. It's not about accumulation in this life, but accumulation in the next life, and painful humiliation for those who don't comply. There's even a hadith describing that people in Paradise can watch and make fun of people in Hellfire!

This disturbs me because it serves as an antithesis to the kind of thing religion is for, and that's getting in touch with God. What do others think?

[EirinnMoChroi]

Actually this is also something that I have considered too. It's funny to study Jewish scripture, Christian scripture, and then look at Islamic scripture and watch them feed off of each other and evolve in thought. Jewish history never really touched much on an afterlife. What is really interesting is that Jewish scripture also doesnt really threaten us with hell either since Satan isnt really much of a figure in it. He's in there, but he's more of a trickster than an all-evil being.

It wasn't until Christianity that we saw Satan as an evil devil and not just a trickster character. Christian scripture also introduced the concrete idea of heaven and hell. And then along came the Qur'an which is full of afterlife rhetoric.

Taking a Jewish studies class and reading the Old Testiment with an intructor to walk us through was one of the most incredible classes Ive ever taken. I recommend ALL Muslims to study Jewish and Christian scripture (WITH a professor or teacher. Someone who isn't bias towards Islam so that they wont unintentionally skew the teachings to be one-sided). Jewish and Christian history is our history too and just as important. I think we forget that a lot. Only reading the Qur'an and not reading the Hebre Bible and the Gospel is kind of like reading Return of the King and trying to analyze the entire LOTR books. Jewish and Christian scripture are the origins of our religion and most of our teachings are because of them.

Actually on topic: I know how you feel about it seeming as though Islamic teachings are a little materialistic when it comes to teachings about the afterlife. I cant tell you how many times, during my first year of being a Muslim, I was told about the material rewards I would get for my good deeds. It all seemed a little bit unnecessary for me. As though I am doing good things for reward. At the end of the day, a cardboard box in the corner of heaven is reward enough.

I think it stems from the fact that good deeds are done when there is some kind of a reward in it for the person. When a child does somethign right, the parent rewards them. God obviously knows our intentions and isnt going to give us stickers for every good thing we do and then a certain amount of stickers wins us a prize in heaven, but I think it is meant to motivate people and to make them feel good for what they do down here.

Honestly, i stop thinking about "rewards" and I dnt think I will emphasize it to my children as much as it was emphasized to me. It kind of left a bad taste in my mouth during those first few months when all peoel kept telling me was the amount of crowns I was going to get. I dont want my kids to, in a sense, feel "bribed" to do good stuff. I want them to do it becuase they will be raised to be kind and compassionate people.

[QuranReading]

Islam is the complete and perfect religion for all mankind. It has complete guidance for all human beings. There are two main authentic resources of Islam (Holy Quran&Hadith) give vital strength, because they have approval of each sayings of Islam.

[EirinnMoChroi]

^ It may be perfect but that doesnt mean that we arent allowed to question it or to ask "why" for certani things. In fact, I think its quite healthy for us to do so. It helps us to better understand why God would ask certain things of us that, at first, we may not understand.

I do believe Islam is the perfect faith but I have issues and I ask questions of it constantly. It helps my faith to evolve and helps me to feel closer to God and to depend on God for answers instead of feeling like I have to blindly follow something like a zombie just because "I'm supossed to."

[BaronChairman]

QuranReading, on 17 January 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

Islam is the complete and perfect religion for all mankind. It has complete guidance for all human beings. There are two main authentic resources of Islam (Holy Quran&Hadith) give vital strength, because they have approval of each sayings of Islam.

"Mankind" by that definition is then suspiciously relegated to a very Arab culture. It was sent in a specific time to a specific people, and without understanding context or reinterpretation, there's no way it would ever work today.

[52Blox]

BaronChairman, on 11 January 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

One of the things that really snapped at my attention about the Quran and hadith and sunnah is the prevalence of descriptions of Paradise.

Certainly the Bible speaks of eternal life, and there's that famous passage at the end of Revelations about the New Jerusalem and River of Life. But the Bible doesn't exactly dwell on the hereafter. Throughout it, there's very little describing any kind of life after death.

This is a major difference from the Islamic scriptures, in which descriptions of the world to come are abundant, painfully exacting, and most notably, they appear to appeal to the base desires of man. Instead of being tailored for man, it's just assumed that everyone is being given everything he or she would ever want and that this eternal bliss is endless. It's the same with Hellfire - we get descriptions of the torture without any regard for potential masochism.

I've defined this as a carrot and stick mentality because you're being lured toward one and trying to avoid the other. But the bigger picture means that if these descriptions are real, then it looks like Islam is eerily materialistic. It's not about accumulation in this life, but accumulation in the next life, and painful humiliation for those who don't comply. There's even a hadith describing that people in Paradise can watch and make fun of people in Hellfire!

This disturbs me because it serves as an antithesis to the kind of thing religion is for, and that's getting in touch with God. What do others think?

You can call it disturbing and materialistic, but I consider that to be relatable and real. Throughout our history a large percentage of no-nonsense practicing Muslims come from backgrounds of struggle and hardships. Whether it be to dealing with gangs,poverty, and broken homes in modern-day Western society or dealing with starvation and famine in 7th Century Arabia. To the extent that the clans of the time would wage brutal wars simply for the control of a mere water well, very similar to the gang-related activity prevalent in many of our communities today. Such people could care less about "becoming more spiritual" simply for the hell of it. We need something real to struggle and strive towards lest we be tempted by the Shaytaan to indugle in the illicit and illegal activies that are right in front of us everyday. Becoming some spiritual hipster whose "in touch with the forces world" is not our focus and thats just speaking the truth. Those descriptions of Jannah are what is keeping so many of brothers and sisters off the street corners and out of the jail cells. You may consider it materialistic but that's just being real and that's coming from the majority of American Muslims.

As far as getting in touch with God goes no problem!!! That's exactly what we're doing by worshipping Him, abiding by His Commandments and enjoining what He has made lawful (Halaal) while avoiding and discouraging what He has made unlawful (Haram). By doing this we move closer to God every day. You don't get closer to God by just meditating in your room all day, you actually need to get out into the field and put your money where your mouth is. What do you think we're doing by praying 5x a day?

Quote

"Mankind" by that definition is then suspiciously relegated to a very Arab culture. It was sent in a specific time to a specific people, and without understanding context or reinterpretation, there's no way it would ever work today.

LOL we're not worried about today. Cause today is gonna be over real soon. And for the record as Muslims we believe 7th Century Arabia under Muhammad SAW> any other civilization in the history of mankind leading up to today. Maybe not so much in a "material" sense, but in more of a "religious one" if you get by drift. We believe Arabic is the language we're all going to be speaking in the HereAfter so yeah Arab Islamic culture is pretty important. And no I'm not an Arab.

[jigglypottamus]

BaronChairman, on 11 January 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

This disturbs me because it serves as an antithesis to the kind of thing religion is for, and that's getting in touch with God. What do others think?

Bro, I love you and all that jazz, but you completely forgot the fact that the greatest pleasure given to any human being who enters Jannah is being able to see his / her Creator at all times without any interference in between, just like you and I can see the full moon on a clear night.

That privilege / ability / reward ... is definitely not "materialism" and additionally, if that's not the pinnacle of spiritual bliss then I don't know what is.

[BaronChairman]

52Blox, on 21 March 2012 - 12:35 AM, said:

LOL we're not worried about today. Cause today is gonna be over real soon. And for the record as Muslims we believe 7th Century Arabia under Muhammad SAW> any other civilization in the history of mankind leading up to today. Maybe not so much in a "material" sense, but in more of a "religious one" if you get by drift. We believe Arabic is the language we're all going to be speaking in the HereAfter so yeah Arab Islamic culture is pretty important. And no I'm not an Arab.

Those first two sentences could easily be cause and effect. SINCE we're not worried about today, THEN today is gonna be over real soon. And little good speaking Arabic is going to do in this life if we're going to be automatically converted to it in the next by default. In this life, we're all going to be speaking Spanish or Mandarin Chinese real soon.

[52Blox]

BaronChairman, on 30 March 2012 - 11:27 AM, said:

Those first two sentences could easily be cause and effect. SINCE we're not worried about today, THEN today is gonna be over real soon. And little good speaking Arabic is going to do in this life if we're going to be automatically converted to it in the next by default. In this life, we're all going to be speaking Spanish or Mandarin Chinese real soon.

Your knowledge of the Quran, Hadith, and Islamic jurispudence will always be severely limited if you're not fluent in Classical Arabic. Talk to anyone who really knows the Classical dialect and they will tell you there is absolutely nothing like learning the religion in its natural language. And no someone who is only familiar with modern-day Arabic won't even come close. So even in this life any serious Muslim will make Classic Arabic a priority any day over anyy other language. Because our Next Life is literally going to be a living Hell if we don't learn our religion as best we can in this life LOL

As far as that cliche and greatly overrused Spanish and Mandarin remark go LOL that line is so 2003 buddy!! And it's overrated too.

[jigglypottamus]

52Blox, on 30 March 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

So even in this life any serious Muslim will make Classic Arabic a priority any day over anyy other language.

i disagree.

Don't come and tell me that I'm not a serious Muslim if I don't learn classical arabiy. Plain and simple, practicing the faraa'id are what you need to get closer to God, and nabeyuna Muhammad (saws) is on the record saying that a man - who committed to just the obligatories - would enter Jannah if he was true to what he pledged.

I leave the more nuanced intricacies of the deen up to those who are learned. If I don't know, I'll go ask them. In the meantime, Muslims today need a lot more professionals in fields other than what you mentioned.

[52Blox]

jigglypottamus, on 30 March 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

i disagree.

Don't come and tell me that I'm not a serious Muslim if I don't learn classical arabiy. Plain and simple, practicing the faraa'id are what you need to get closer to God, and nabeyuna Muhammad (saws) is on the record saying that a man - who committed to just the obligatories - would enter Jannah if he was true to what he pledged.

I leave the more nuanced intricacies of the deen up to those who are learned. If I don't know, I'll go ask them. In the meantime, Muslims today need a lot more professionals in fields other than what you mentioned.

No ones saying you're not serious if you don't know it. Vast majority today do not know it. I'm saying any serious Muslims should have the intention to learn it to come closer to the deen. I never mentioned any occupational fields whatsoever. Nobody's trying to make up their own fatwas over here or debate Fiqh with scholars who have been studying since they could walk. But you're ability to comprehend the Quran vastly improves when you're familiar with it's original tongue. Same goes for getting the most out of your five daily prayers. Thats a fact. There is a reason why we don't allow people to just pray salaat in their own language. They have to memorize them in Arabic. Because those prayers will flat out not be accepted if recited in any other language. Obviously Islam is a universal religion not just for the Arabs. But to deny the precedence of the Arabic language over all others in this religion is being dishonest.


Peace and Blessings

[EirinnMoChroi]

52Blox, on 21 March 2012 - 12:35 AM, said:

LOL we're not worried about today. Cause today is gonna be over real soon. And for the record as Muslims we believe 7th Century Arabia under Muhammad SAW> any other civilization in the history of mankind leading up to today. Maybe not so much in a "material" sense, but in more of a "religious one" if you get by drift. We believe Arabic is the language we're all going to be speaking in the HereAfter so yeah Arab Islamic culture is pretty important. And no I'm not an Arab.

What do you mean we shouldn't worry about today? I hate this attitude that so many Abrahamic people hold. Not only does it marginalize the current and future generations, but I think it also goes along with the attitude that, since the world is ending soon, environmentalism and care for our planet doesn't matter anymore. I am a passionate environmentalist (as you may come to learn) and this attitude is rampant among Abrahamic people and completely heartbreaking. I believe this "the world is sending soon anyway" excuse is a direct reason why we have this attitude among our Ummah.

As for Arabic being the only language spoken in Paradise, that is not in the Qur'an at all and, since it's not, I leave that belief up for debate. Not only that, but the authenticity of that hadith (Haakim's Al-Mustadrak) is arguable. The Qur'an states that all people will communicate freely and if God sent a prophet to every people, as the Qur'an states, then all languages are holy and are languages of God. I also have an issue with you saying that Arabic culture in Muhammad's time was the best one and better than all others. Are you forgetting that Allah sent a prophet to ALL people? The attitude that the national heritage of only ONE of God's MANY prophets as being better and superior to all others is nationalism. Nationalism has no place in Islam since it also breeds racism and ethnocentrism like this. As someone who isn't Arab and is passionately proud of my own cultural heritage, I think that's pretty insulting.

I also don't believe that Prophets time was the best time and should be reproduced. I think what worked for Prophet Muhammad *saws* doesn't always work for today's Muslims and certain commandments and rules should take precedence over others. We need to look at the things that Allah said and understand that COMMANDMENTS are different than allowances. Just because Prophet allowed something 1400 years ago does not mean we should reproduce it today if our world cannot accommodate for it. Things like slavery, marriageable age for girls, and polygamy are perfect examples of this. There are certain things that worked for that time but should not be practiced today.

[BaronChairman]

52Blox, on 30 March 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

Your knowledge of the Quran, Hadith, and Islamic jurispudence will always be severely limited if you're not fluent in Classical Arabic. Talk to anyone who really knows the Classical dialect and they will tell you there is absolutely nothing like learning the religion in its natural language. And no someone who is only familiar with modern-day Arabic won't even come close. So even in this life any serious Muslim will make Classic Arabic a priority any day over anyy other language. Because our Next Life is literally going to be a living Hell if we don't learn our religion as best we can in this life LOL

As far as that cliche and greatly overrused Spanish and Mandarin remark go LOL that line is so 2003 buddy!! And it's overrated too.

I must admit: I am unmatched in the ability you clearly have to ignore the point and beat around the bush. All you've done is imply that other scriptures will be severely limited in their ability to be understood by their own followers if not learned in their original languages.

And as far as that cliche line about the importance of learning classic Arabic, that line is so 2002 buddy! And it's overrated too. Also, unlike you, the language statistics actually back me up.

[EirinnMoChroi]

52Blox, on 30 March 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

So even in this life any serious Muslim will make Classic Arabic a priority any day over anyy other language. Because our Next Life is literally going to be a living Hell if we don't learn our religion as best we can in this life LOL

I don't agree with you. Again, you are marginalizing the majority of the rest of the world and making heaven a clubhouse for only traditional Muslims or Muslims who understand Classical Arabic. I agree that classical Arabic is good to learn and much of the meaning behind the Qur'an is lost without knowledge of the language, but I DONT agree that heaven is only for traditional and classically learned Muslims. I believe that God is merciful and since all people on the entire planet are His creation (and not everyone on the planet has the resources to learn classical Arabic or even get a copy of Qur'an or even hear about the Qur'an at all), then God has made accomodations for them. That is why He says in the Qur'an that all people were sent a Prophet. You are following ONE of Gods' MANY Prophets. You have no right to say who will or will not be in heaven and hell. That's not your job and it's not good for you to thrive in that mindset and start imagining that it is your job. Please understand that the world is a huge place and Islam, while it is the right religion, does not exist everywhere. Since it doesnt, accomodations have been made. God did not only create Muslims and then left the rest of humanity floating around without being accounted for. They are accounted for in God's own way and it's only His business to know how.

It's also important to undersatnd that the more you study world religion, the more you realize how similar they all are. I've studied Eastern and traditional Western religions my entire life and the only real difference that I have found is that Abrahamic followers are always preoccupied with telling people who will and will not be burning in hell. I beileve that a whole more more people than just Muslims will be with us in heaven. There are people who have never heard of Islam or aren't able to follow Islam. There are peopel who lived in a time when Judaism, Chrsitianity and Islam were completely inaccessible to their region (think Celtic Druids, think Native American shamans, etc.) and they have to be accounted for. They are God's people too. You cannot take ONE single religion, say it works for the entire world and only followers of that one single religion will be with us in Heaven. Where the hell do you think everyone else will be? Do you think God is THAT exclusive that he would force all other people in hell when they never even got the chance to learn about Islam at all? That's why the verse that says that he sent a prophet to everyone is SO IMPORTANT yet nobody ever focuses on it. It means that there are prophets in every single nation and all of them were sent to them by Allah. Do you think they hadned them the Qur'an? Probably not. It's not your right to say who will and will not be in heaven. You aren't God.

[ChotooMotoo]

jigglypottamus, on 27 March 2012 - 12:30 AM, said:

Bro, I love you and all that jazz, but you completely forgot the fact that the greatest pleasure given to any human being who enters Jannah is being able to see his / her Creator at all times without any interference in between, just like you and I can see the full moon on a clear night.

That privilege / ability / reward ... is definitely not "materialism" and additionally, if that's not the pinnacle of spiritual bliss then I don't know what is.

Can you re-phrase this in the style of a Kane West Meme?

[EirinnMoChroi]

ChotooMotoo, on 05 April 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Can you re-phrase this in the style of a Kane West Meme?

Yo Bro. I love and all and imma let you finish...but the greatest moment in Jannah is seeing your creator like I see the moon in the sky. In the sky!

I just found this and it's too funny

[52Blox]

BaronChairman, on 05 April 2012 - 11:22 AM, said:

I must admit: I am unmatched in the ability you clearly have to ignore the point and beat around the bush. All you've done is imply that other scriptures will be severely limited in their ability to be understood by their own followers if not learned in their original languages.

lol only one beating around bushes is you little boy!! Last I checked you started this thread was started to moan about how "Islam is material" based on your little cliffnotes interpretation of a religion that has over 1400 of detailed scholarship. The point was simply raised about the importance understanding the language in which the entire foundation and scholarship of the religion is based. You cannot be a Muslim without reciting Classical Arabic 5x a day in your prayers. There is no debate about that and never will be. The only one bringing up other religious scriptures is you which is pretty random because you starting this thread to speicifically throw a tantrum about how "Islam is material" lol

Quote

And as far as that cliche line about the importance of learning classic Arabic, that line is so 2002 buddy! And it's overrated too. Also, unlike you, the language statistics actually back me up.

Seriously instead of thinking of your own lines you just gonna play paulie wanna cracker with me and parrot my words. I guess you liberal white atheiests are just too slick and witty for us colorful savages lol. I had no idea I needed language statistics to back up my claim about "the importance of learning Classical Arabic to understand Islam". Btw in what year will I instantly just start speaking in Mandarin according to your stats LOL? Btw when I think of where Christopher Hitchens is today a great big, white smile comes across my face, not gonna lie!! I just hope there isn't any "white privelege" where he is because I don't think his kind are in the minority over there. I could be wrong though!!!

[52Blox]

EirinnMoChroi, on 05 April 2012 - 11:34 AM, said:

I don't agree with you. Again, you are marginalizing the majority of the rest of the world and making heaven a clubhouse for only traditional Muslims or Muslims who understand Classical Arabic. I agree that classical Arabic is good to learn and much of the meaning behind the Qur'an is lost without knowledge of the language, but I DONT agree that heaven is only for traditional and classically learned Muslims. I believe that God is merciful and since all people on the entire planet are His creation (and not everyone on the planet has the resources to learn classical Arabic or even get a copy of Qur'an or even hear about the Qur'an at all), then God has made accomodations for them. That is why He says in the Qur'an that all people were sent a Prophet. You are following ONE of Gods' MANY Prophets. You have no right to say who will or will not be in heaven and hell. That's not your job and it's not good for you to thrive in that mindset and start imagining that it is your job. Please understand that the world is a huge place and Islam, while it is the right religion, does not exist everywhere. Since it doesnt, accomodations have been made. God did not only create Muslims and then left the rest of humanity floating around without being accounted for. They are accounted for in God's own way and it's only His business to know how.

It's also important to undersatnd that the more you study world religion, the more you realize how similar they all are. I've studied Eastern and traditional Western religions my entire life and the only real difference that I have found is that Abrahamic followers are always preoccupied with telling people who will and will not be burning in hell. I beileve that a whole more more people than just Muslims will be with us in heaven. There are people who have never heard of Islam or aren't able to follow Islam. There are peopel who lived in a time when Judaism, Chrsitianity and Islam were completely inaccessible to their region (think Celtic Druids, think Native American shamans, etc.) and they have to be accounted for. They are God's people too. You cannot take ONE single religion, say it works for the entire world and only followers of that one single religion will be with us in Heaven. Where the hell do you think everyone else will be? Do you think God is THAT exclusive that he would force all other people in hell when they never even got the chance to learn about Islam at all? That's why the verse that says that he sent a prophet to everyone is SO IMPORTANT yet nobody ever focuses on it. It means that there are prophets in every single nation and all of them were sent to them by Allah. Do you think they hadned them the Qur'an? Probably not. It's not your right to say who will and will not be in heaven. You aren't God.

Let's go point by point

1. You have way much emotion and very little knowledge. That's a very dangerous combination but sadly its WAY TO common an occurence amongst Caucasian-American Reverts and I do mean specifically because Alhamdullilah we very rarely deal with these types of personalities amongst the majority African-American Reverts. And Alhamdullilah we are the majority of Reverts to Islam in this country. Seriously baby girl there is nothing orignal whatsoever in your points, you sound like an exact replica of the stereotypical White Liberal Revert who feels the need to re-colonize or as you say "re-interpret" Islam to civilize and enlighten us dark-skinned savages from our backwards, "traditionalist" views. Again you rarely see this smug superiority complex from African American Muslims but go to a gathering full of upper-middle class White American Reverts and calls for Re-interpreting Islam are all over the place. Sorry but reading some books taking a couple college classes about world religions does not mean you can bang heads with men and women who have dedicated their entire lives to studying this deen. And by studying I mean memorizing the works of Classical scholars and studying side by side with their modern counterparts. Islam is rooted by the Qur'an, Sunnah, and Consensus of the Ulema. That's what keeps this deen objective and on point so that it cannot be influenced by passionate, yet ignorant "intellectuals" who just want to promote what they like about Islam and ignore what they dislike. The Qur'an is not meant for you to interpret for yourself with your own personal biases and it never EVER was. When you accept Islam you accept ALL OF IT, even parts you may be uncomfortable with or even dislike. That's because like all of us you're flawed, mortal, and finite; whereas Allah SWT is Perfect, immortal, infinite, and the Most Just. Everything that happens is the Will of Allah SWT, so whatever happens it will ultimately be justified by the will of Allah SWT on the Day of Judgement. Put simply it all happens for a reason.

And believe me girl this is NOTHING NEW we have been dealing with Progressive, White Reverts exactly like yourself for decades upon decades to the point where we can spot you out from miles away. And don't get it twisted by accusing people of racism because some of the biggest whistle blowers on your kind are fellow, rightly guided White Reverts. Umar Lee, a working class White Muslim from St. Louis is Alhamdullilah a very good example. I don't always agree with him 100% but he tells it like it is when it comes to this issue. I encourage you to read his blog, though I have a feeling you already have.

http://umarlee.wordp...u-ever-believe/

I pray that you avoid playing into the stereotype because your kind are nothing new at all. Progressive Muslims have been calling for re-interpreting the Qu'ran to "modern times" since the Crusades. They thought the ways of 7th Century Arabs were "backwards" and needed to be updated. They called for Re-interpreting the Qu'ran 1000 yrs ago, 500 yrs ago, and 50 yrs ago. Alhamdullilah these "Progressive" Muslims were an irrelelevent minority then, are an irrelelevant minority today, and will remain an irrelevant minority until the return of Isa Ibn Maryam. There is nothing new here. We have watched this episode at least 100 times already.


2. All this talk about Prophets and Messenger being sent to ALL PEOPLE is Basic Islam 101 and with all due respect you should have learned this years ago. It has been dicussed for ages upon ages and I really encourage you get some basic Seerah lessons from a scholar who would easily answer all your questions within minutes no lies!!!!. But quick summary: Muhammad SAW is the THE SEAL OF ALL PROPHETS. Meaning that he was the last Prophet and he was sent to all of Mankind, whereas all of his predecessors where sent to there own people and there own people ONLY. Musa AS was sent only to the Hebrew slaves of Egypt. He did not preach Islam DIRECTLY to the native Egyptians, similarly Isa AS was sent to Jews of his time and he did not preach Islam DIRECTLY to the Romans. So yes there were hundreds if not thousands of Prophets of Allah SWT and they all had their own Shariah (code of laws) for their own people, for their own times. The Shariah of Adam AS differed from that of Nuh AS, which differed from that of Ibrahim AS. But when a new Prophet was sent to a people, His Shariah would abrogate the Shariah of his predecessor.

The Shariah of Isa AS abrogated the Shariah of Musa AS for the Jewish people. Even in the Qu'ran we have verses that have been abrogated, such as the verses commanding the early Muslims to say their Salaat towards Jerusalem while the Kaaba was infested with false idols and statues. Once Muhammad SAW destroyed those idols and statues, Allah SWT commanded the Muslims to turn their Kibla towards Makkah, thus forever abrogating the verses telling us to pray towards Jerusalem.

Bottom line Muhammad SAW was the seal of all Prophets and he was the ONLY ONE sent to ALL MANKIND, not just to one people like his predecessors. Therefore the Shariah of Muhammad SAW abrogated the Shariah of all other Prophets regardless of when or where they were from. That is why Islam in its current form is the only religion acceptable in the eyes of Allah SWT. This is why Allah SWT told us in the last verses of the Qu'ran:

5: 3 This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islâm as your religion. (Surah Al-Ma’idah)

The moment this verse was revealed, all other religions became unacceptable. As for those who died without ever hearing the message of Islam, they will be judged by Allah SWT on the Day of Judgement according to His Will and He will do with them as he pleases and Allah SWT is Al-Adl, the most Just. Again this is basic Islam 101 knowledge and this has been followed for 1400 yrs by all rightly guided Muslims. As I said before those "Muslims" who deny these basic teachings of the Qu'ran and Sunnah are an irrelevant minority today, were an irrelevant minority 1400,1000, and 500 years ago; and InshAllah they will remain an irrelevant minority till return of Isa Ibn Maryam at which point they must either repent, or they will be destroyed. Everyone's entitled to their own little opinion but those are the facts, real talk!!!!

The Beloved Prophet (Salla Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said that after he passes away his Ummah should remain firmly steadfast upon his Sunnah and upon the way of his four Muslim Caliphs. He advised us to follow this Path alone and to be beware of innovations, which contradict the Nobel Qur’an and his Sunnah. (Abu Dawud; Tirmizi)

[ChotooMotoo]

what path that is continues to be debated, has led to wars of Muslims killing other Muslims where both sides think they are the rightly guided interpretation, and even now Muslims are killed nearly every day for their supposed misguidance by other Muslims.

[EirinnMoChroi]

Wow, I'm "baby girl" and Baron is "baby boy"? Looks like someone's feeling a little threatened and needs to call us sexualised names in order to feel like he's making a good argument.

Hopefully soon, Box, you can learn to debate effectively and maturely like an adult should. The minute you called me "baby girl" and attributed certain negative characteristics on members of my racial group, I skipped right over you and went to Chotoos post. That's usually what happens when you begin your entire argument with an insult. Learn not to do that, and perhaps you can be more effective on the boards.

Leave your racism at the door where it belongs, and hopefully a moderator wont kick you out of here for it. None of us here feel the need to use race as a weapon against another person's arguments. Why you feel that need is pretty sad to me. Usually it's what people do when they don't have anything stronger to use, so they resort to the lowest forms of insult. Congratulations.