[Rain]

Sisters, yeah, MashaAllah don't worry about appearance yeah, InshaAllah, but keep fit under those abayas but don't do that wink smiley thing, otherwise I won't be able to trust you forever, cuz you gotta have haya and that's NOT hayaful, astaghferullah. be confident and everything, yeah, but not loud, cuz like, I'm the leader of the household and so I'm meant to be the loud one, yeahh.....



*returns to book "gift to the bride"*

[Shivermetimbers]

haha i love you. i think pregnancy has made you funnier.

[sumi]

Rain said:

Sisters, yeah, MashaAllah don't worry about appearance yeah, InshaAllah, but keep fit under those abayas but don't do that wink smiley thing, otherwise I won't be able to trust you forever, cuz you gotta have haya and that's NOT hayaful, astaghferullah. be confident and everything, yeah, but not loud, cuz like, I'm the leader of the household and so I'm meant to be the loud one, yeahh.....



*returns to book "gift to the bride"*

dont forget sisterz, you should totally get an education and go to school and be professionals, just dont be doctors because then you're shooting yourself in the foot and no one will marry you.



my other favorite part was the tunnel vision-like focus on looks and modesty as if those are the ONLY things that matter in life. really, boys? you're given the opportunity to anonymously say ANYTHING you want to girls, and that's the only thing you can talk about? do you have any other priorities? any other topics of discussion? the entire thing was very very typical of undergrad newly found religious zeal with the focus squarely on hijab and modesty as if that is the be all and end all of islam.

if i could anonymously say anything to msa boys, it would be to grow the hell up. think outside the box. expand your intellectual horizons.

This post has been edited by sumi: 29 April 2010 - 06:42 PM
Reason for edit: This was automatically merged to prevent double-posting.

[Shivermetimbers]

yeah, that's weird. all of them pretty much said the exact same thing.

[Rida]

[nooni]

sumi said:

the entire thing was very very typical of undergrad newly found religious zeal with the focus squarely on hijab and modesty as if that is the be all and end all of islam.

i completely agree, and i have a funny feeling that the person who asked the question also carefully selected his audience.

[Salika]

Guys who tell women to "be as natural as possible" regarding makeup don't know anything about makeup.

msa boy said:

dressing modestly is a big plus even if guys dont give you attention at first. Guys may look at scantily clad girls with lust but they desire modest women for marriage.

fail

[EirinnMoChroi]

Quote

Hook up with Allah, and Allah will hook you up.

LOL at this.

Some of the responses were kinda nice but I was beginning to feel annoyed at how many bros hate on makeup. Makeup isnt bad as long as its not Mimi-style eyeshadow and hot pink lips. I like makeup. I feel comfortable to leave the house without it but sometimes its a lot of fun to put it on too. I also like detailed hijabs sometimes too. As long as its done tastefully and you carry yourself with respect, I dont think its a problem.

And to be honest, the first woman that I ever saw in a hijab absolutely caught my attention because she was SO beautiful and her light blue silk hijab matched the same color of her eyes. She seriously was the reason why I became so interested in Islam. Wearing something that is pleasing to the eye and still being modest is a great way to attract other WOMEN to Islam. I always thought of Muslim women as hiding behind black when I was a Christian and after I saw that lady, I was so interested to learn more and I really really wanted to do that too.

The other lady that inspired me to wear hijab is Eily from myspace and youtube. I was so into her styles and makeup and she made me feel like wearing hijab is not an ugly thing, but can also be fashionable too. While I dont wear my makeup like she does, she is another example of a woman who grabbed the attention of a girl who had a bad idea of Muslim women and then was drawn in becasue I saw that she was a Muslim girl with confidence and it turned me onto wanting to learn more about the religion.

[sumi]

so a friend of mine posted this today... as i was reading it, i had these anonymous messages in mind. she says its the first in a series of angry rants...

Quote

Angry Rant #1
Share
Today at 7:15pm

I have spent a lot of time these past two and a half months or so discoursing with my fellow females, which to any of you that know me well, is pretty much within the realm of ordinary. What is abnormal about our conversations is the number of times our direction segues into rants about—guess?

Men.

Muslim men.

It has also come to my attention that many of our male Muslim counterparts have felt the need in the same time period to publish and/or publicly discuss what they would like to see improved in women.

It’s hardly a coincidence. Female insecurities are best exposed in large groups, each member harboring her own well-stocked stash of conceptions, misconceptions, experiences, as well as a heaping cache of juicy relationship gossip.

I have to say I am enraged. And here is my thought process. Follow me if you dare:

1. Allah created us for one another, so that we may complement and complete one another. To claim that something is “wrong” with one sex or the other is denying Allah’s wisdom. I don’t know about you, but last time I checked I don’t enjoy getting hit by divine lightning for blasphemy.
2. The pool of intelligent, understanding, RELIGIOUS, and educated men of the Muslim persuasion is very much limited as is. I am discounting attractiveness here for reasons that I will explain later. A Muslim man in this country can afford to be picky. He has an infinite number of educated, intelligent, deep, socio-politically active, and thoughtful women to pick from. Women cannot venture to claim likewise.
3. To pick on a woman’s physical insecurities is the cruelest thing a man can do. Even the most flawless/secure of women harbors some sort of self-loathing. I would venture to say that it is almost second-nature, but there is nothing natural about it.
4. Make-Up
-Brothers, you can’t even tell we are wearing any. So don’t go around spouting beauty advice when you don’t know one end of the mascara tube from another. (P.S. That MSA sister you’ve had your eye that looks so natural? Yeah. She probably spends more money and time on makeup than the ones that look like they wearing a lot. Yay for materialism and narcissism!)
-Women do not wear make-up to impress you. They do it to feel good about themselves. Yes, some women are secure enough to go without, props to them, but the rest of us (thanks to you) are not.
-You want a girl doesn’t need/want to wear make-up AND manages to maintain her feminine charms and beauty? More power to you. When you find her, let me know. She probably has directions to Shangri-La as well.
5. You want to pick on our attractiveness/fitness?
-I don’t know any Muslim brother that hits the gym as often or as hard as I do. You want to work out sometime? Bring it.
-You guys are ugly. Seriously. There is something very much wrong with Muslim guys. It is nearly impossible for them to be cute. Its almost like gravity, its a law of nature.

5. You want a girl with hayya? Let me tell you what hayya is not:
-Hayya is not staring at the floor when a brother asks you a question.
-Hayya is not wearing abaya/potato sacks
-Hayya is not speaking in tones between a breath and a whisper.

Hayya is:
-Conducting yourself in a respectful manner
-Being conscious of yourself
-Acting according to your natural state

Countless times I have asked a brother a question, only to fear for his life because he is turning his face from me so far I am sure his cervical vertebrae are about to literally twist off. And when I try to make eye contact with him, I look like a hayya-less woman?

Lets take a walk down the spirit of the law lane.

If lower your gaze meant literally lower your gaze then it should be perfectly acceptable for a man to stare at a woman’s boobs. His gaze is lowered, right? If you say, “Oh, Jumanah stop being so silly. It means don’t look at the person directly” I say this: When women came to the Prophet PBUH to ask a question, did he choose to practice his neck stretches? Or did he just choose to look at the floor and never make/severely limit eye contact?

Allah has created us so that most of the communication that flows between humans is NON-VERBAL. How do you know my intentions/ emotions if you do not look at me directly at some point?

Lower your gaze means avoid EXAMINING this person’s physical features in a lascivious manner. There is hardly anything sexual in asking when the MSA meeting is. Besides, most likely the brother I am asking is not even cute.

One last point: A woman that voices her opinion is not a haya-less woman. She is an outstanding example of the power that Islam gives to her sex, and to the abilities Allah has granted her as a biological human being.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. More to come Insha’Allah. I have a paper proposal to work on.

[ChotooMotoo]

I do wonder. So many times I've seen sister after sister be the model of what all these marriage tutorials say about guarding modesty, being beautiful for their husbands, keeping the home, protecting their wealth, raising pious children etc. and their efforts aren't returned with love or tenderness, they are returned with neglect and anger.

One Niqabi muslimah I knew. OMG such an inspiration on deen and everything in every way. Her husband hardly earned a penny and she didn't complain or get upset when they didn't have money to even buy toothpaste. Her home was perfectly spotless, and kept herself attractive. Then one time I was visiting her house and there was some minor problem with her house keeping, and he starts YELLING at her and belittling her in front of me and the kids.

Another niqabi woman I knew had lots of kids, she was extremely frugal with the money even making their clothes to stretch the home income. Her house was clean all the time, kids were being well educated in Deen. Her husband never spent time with her. He spent all his time at work, and after work he'd go sit at the mosque until well after his kids bedtime. Does your wife not also deserve some of your attention? How about your children?

These are two examples, but I've seen it repeated over and over again. Nearly every sister who I look up to as a model of womanhood and wifely behavior has a husband who shows her indifference at best to reward her hard work. Yet those women who I look at, who boss their husbands, are spendthrifts, dress to the nines with make-up, immodest clothes, everything this article complains about... absolute devotion from those men.

Makes you feel like it's not worth spending all the effort. The better wife you try to be, the less your husband will appreciate you.

[EirinnMoChroi]

These kinds of things really scare me, as a Muslim woman is about to lose her husband in 4 weeks. All I keep hearing is "hold onto the good ones cause they are few and far between!" It really scares me. While I am most definitely not looking for the perfect man, I AM looking for a kind man who is driven and who, most of all, loves Allah and wants to be a good husband. Hearing men talk this way and hearing these stories from my Muslim sisters really makes me feel like I should start enjoying the single life since I may be in it for awhile.

[zzze]

They exist, Irish. Alhamdulilah. Just make sincere du'a and have good intentions insha Allah.

Red flag: His mum still buys his boxers. I think we should make a thread about red flags. And green ones

[EirinnMoChroi]

zzze said:

They exist, Irish. Alhamdulilah. Just make sincere du'a and have good intentions insha Allah.

Red flag: His mum still buys his boxers. I think we should make a thread about red flags. And green ones

Insha'Allah I will find one again soon. I loved being married. I just want to make sure that I am able to find a husband again who also WANTS to be married and wants to love someone--not a man who thinks being married is just another thing he has to do.

This post has been edited by IrishMuslimah: 29 April 2010 - 10:52 PM
Reason for edit: This was automatically merged to prevent double-posting.

[DawudIsrael]

I think most of the sisters read the first post, much worse than it was. That stuff barely hits the iceberg for nastiness. I think its just when you put all those advices in one spot, it has a cascade effect.

I don't think what the guys wrote was even near being called "honest." You want an honest idea, I remember one brother distorting a hadith to my amazement and said, "Yeah, sex is half of the deen" (the hadith was, "marriage is half of the deen"). Leaves a lot to be said about compassion, caring and how alive people's hearts are.

sumi said:

-You guys are ugly. Seriously. There is something very much wrong with Muslim guys. It is nearly impossible for them to be cute. Its almost like gravity, its a law of nature.

Yeah, see this is what I wanted to hear. Most sisters I find fancy a brother for about a week, and then its back to staring at cheek bones and jaw structures. I think that is really what is behind female discontent- how they find out all the hottest brothers are messed up, going to make bad husbands, or if they are interested in the sisters its only to mess around with. And the other dudes, who ain't hot are equally as sexually frustrated with the "options" and so parrot out the advice above as their #1 concern.

It's also concerning to me, how just about all the role Model Muslims I have come across have had divorces.

Arabatman said:

When I read the question I understood it as what a guy would want to say to a specific sister rather than just in general to all of them. Kinda like postsecret

FYI: If anyone wants to contribute Muslim Post-secret pieces, I'd be willing to put it up on my site and maybe make it a regular thing even here.
Examples:

http://muslimology.w...-art-gallery-1/
http://muslimology.w...-art-gallery-3/
http://muslimology.w.../04/soul-art-5/
http://muslimology.w...egory/soul-art/

This is basically an invite for you to vent and give shout-outs. Cathartic, humane-touch, and inspirational. No censorship (unless it's too much skin). If I can get even a few regular pieces, I'll make a separate website for ya'll to speak to and be heard by the ummah, so we all feel less obliged to rant and go insane shouting, ya dig?

[sumi]

here's a forum for sisters to respond, also anonymously:

https://spreadsheets...YX2JRVVlHU1E6MQ

[MossadConspiracy]

RuwaydaMustafah said:

What is wrong with what they have said?

1.Don't wear make-up, stay natural
2.Be Modest
3.Don't wear skinny jeans with tight hijabs
4.Have Haya`
5.Be closer to Allah...

I agree with what the brothers have said, but in response to them,

It is annoying and pathetic when brothers start belittling sisters, or making comments about how they [sisters] should dress, act and conduct themselves as Muslim women when they themselves do not take into account the difficulties many sisters face, and secondly when they don't apply the same standards to themselves as they do to sisters. When brothers are overtly-flirtatious, they're not perceived as immodest, and loose but, if a sister is, then suddenly she is considered as a immodest whore. The double standards need to diminish on Campus – having haya`, being active in Dawah, and so on applies to both men and women in Islam.

Loving one another for the sake of Allah, and not passing generic-fatwas or judgemental comments about sisters is needed in order to allow them to grow spiritually and emotionally.

I could go on, but I have studies. Also, sisters don't worry about brothers being judgemental, we're all judgemental in one way or another, and we all have high expectation from each other, but what we need most is respect and love for one another as Muslims. I ask Allah, the Almighty, and generous to strengthen the bonds of love, kindness and mercy between us.

salam

those are good comments sister

it was really amazing that these guys just seemed to be interested in beauty and fashion tips. I agreed with alot of what they had to say- tight shirts and jeans make us want to look but theyre really not a modest way to dress. Make-up i dont really have a strong opinion on... But anyway, there are so many better things people couldve said other than "dress modestly and dont wear make up"

also the guy who told girls not to go to med school is pretty dumb. Even anonymously, who is he to say something like that. It can hurt marriage prospects- but girls know the risks much better than guys, and many are willing to take them... and they all get married in the end.

ws

[kababqueen]

This is what goes on inside the heads of guys that have very little practical knowledge of the way that relationships actually work, or guys that are overzealous about the MSA scene and think that it's their whole world. Almost everything that they discussed was about marriage or something really superficial. Not a single person said that sisters should pursue an education, or that they should marry only when they're ready and have found the right person, or that they shouldn't be afraid to follow their dreams in life, or that they shouldn't ever tolerate disrespect/abuse from any man. There were a few good and thoughtful responses in there somewhere, and I'm almost certain that these guys generally meant well in their messages, but as for the rest...gimme a break.

We don’t need fashion/makeup tips, etiquette lessons, or pep talks on confidence and true beauty from guys, we don’t need to hear about your jealousy or insecurity issues or how you test us to see if we’re marriage material (which is kinda creepy btw), we don’t want to know how you’re attracted to flirtacious women, we don’t wanna hear about how you’re afraid that we’ll get fat when we’re married and secretly hope that we look like Adriana Lima under our jilbabs, we’re already quite aware of the many sexist double standards concerning male-female interaction (and thanks for letting us know that you do in fact enjoy looking at other scantily-clad women with lust…yet treat us like harlots when we attempt to say salam), we don’t care if our academic/professional aspirations threaten your manhood, it’s not our fault that many of you would rather respect us from a distance while chasing non-muslim women around and then blaming us for the fact that we’re still single in our 30s, we don’t know what it means to strike the perfect balance of haya apparently (too little and we’re not good enough, too much and we’re not good enough)…but how much haya does it take for you to chat up that blond bimbo from class, for the sake of dawah of course? :faint:

[MossadConspiracy]

ChotooMotoo said:

I do wonder. So many times I've seen sister after sister be the model of what all these marriage tutorials say about guarding modesty, being beautiful for their husbands, keeping the home, protecting their wealth, raising pious children etc. and their efforts aren't returned with love or tenderness, they are returned with neglect and anger.

One Niqabi muslimah I knew. OMG such an inspiration on deen and everything in every way. Her husband hardly earned a penny and she didn't complain or get upset when they didn't have money to even buy toothpaste. Her home was perfectly spotless, and kept herself attractive. Then one time I was visiting her house and there was some minor problem with her house keeping, and he starts YELLING at her and belittling her in front of me and the kids.

Another niqabi woman I knew had lots of kids, she was extremely frugal with the money even making their clothes to stretch the home income. Her house was clean all the time, kids were being well educated in Deen. Her husband never spent time with her. He spent all his time at work, and after work he'd go sit at the mosque until well after his kids bedtime. Does your wife not also deserve some of your attention? How about your children?

These are two examples, but I've seen it repeated over and over again. Nearly every sister who I look up to as a model of womanhood and wifely behavior has a husband who shows her indifference at best to reward her hard work. Yet those women who I look at, who boss their husbands, are spendthrifts, dress to the nines with make-up, immodest clothes, everything this article complains about... absolute devotion from those men.

Makes you feel like it's not worth spending all the effort. The better wife you try to be, the less your husband will appreciate you.

salam

thats really not true. they probably just come from a cultural background where mistreating your wife is part of machismo. That or earning no money made the guy turn evil due to having his confidence destroyed

ws

[DawudIsrael]

FANTASY




REALITY

[Kapus]

Gosh.



Are all the guys out there really making us look so bad?