[TrentReznor858]

does this thread even have a topic anymore?

[Azamnoor]

farah said:

keep it on topic. off-topic posts will be deleted. etc etc.

but wemenz r inferur and we shundt be talkng butt dis cuz no mount of edkashion can haz give hulp 2 wemenz.

/teenyboppingmoment

There, on topic.

[smrtengineer]

i was talking to a fellow islamican, who's quite the genius by the way. anyways, i came to some conclusions about this issue.

i think it has everything to do with ego and pride.

girl: i'm educated, i want a man who's my equal. i don't want someone who's less intelligent, more inexperienced, and he'll be the HEAD of my household?? no way. i'm way too good for him.

boy: she's smart, if she gives me advice, i'll feel stupid listening to her, my ego will be hurt if i take her advice. everyone will know she earns more than me. and that hurts my pride.

the test for her: if she marries him, she'll hafta be patient, offer advice in a manner that won't demean him, she'll hafta accept him as amir of the household (prolly the biggest test, submitting your actions to a perceived lesser educated man)

the test for him: not to use his inferiority complex to belittle her, ignore her wise suggestions not to treat her badly as a result of his lack of educational or economical accomplishments. tactfully provide leadership to the family, knowing full well that there is someone more educated and wiser in the family.

example: the prophet married khadija. she was way more experienced than him. and at the time of marriage she was wiser, smarter, richer, well established, and. to boot. she was his EMPLOYER!! so here we have an example, where his piety was utmost important, and his material qualifications were secondary or even, arguably, ignored. he listened to her sage advice, and she submitted her will to him, and his will was submitted to allah's will.


conclusion: so there's our example, our prophet. and its happening today. girls, highly educated, seeking out their highly educated counterparts, who may not actually exist. now, i'm not saying lower your standards, i'm saying find pious folk, and put that on the top of your list. and if you have phd, and he's a highschool graduate and has some income, then why not?

assumptions made: higher education are directly linked to intellect and wisdom, which isn't necessarily true.

[Glasgow]

smrtengineer said:

assumptions made: Higher education are directly linked to intellect and wisdom, which isn't necessarily true.

qft

[sumi]

those of you who don't care whether your spouse has a degree or not, is there a minimum level of education you expect of them? literacy? basic math? world history?

also, do you think that there is something gained in the experience of going to college/graduate school which cannot be attained without having gone to college/graduate school? if so, and if that something gained was something that you felt absolutely had to be a characteristic present in your spouse, would that change your views?

[wheelworks]

sumiyia said:

those of you who don't care whether your spouse has a degree or not, is there a minimum level of education you expect of them? literacy? basic math? world history?

also, do you think that there is something gained in the experience of going to college/graduate school which cannot be attained without having gone to college/graduate school? if so, and if that something gained was something that you felt absolutely had to be a characteristic present in your spouse, would that change your views?

For me; the priority is that she has to have a basic grounding of what's right and wrong and act on it. The rest will follow through after that insha Allah.

[sumi]

wheelworks said:

For me; the priority is that she has to have a basic grounding of what's right and wrong and act on it. The rest will follow through after that insha Allah.

so you'd be okay with having to teach her to read? addition? subtraction? would you accept the possible hardships that would accompany that?

[wheelworks]

sumiyia said:

so you'd be okay with having to teach her to read? addition? subtraction? would you accept the possible hardships that would accompany that?

Yep.

[zakk]

There's a difference between degrees and education, though. Education is constant... wouldn't want someone with a great degree who just stopped trying to learn anything.

[sumi]

wheelworks said:

Yep.

is that realistic? would such a relationship really last very long? how long would it take you to give your wife a K-12 education? is just knowing right from wrong enough to get by in this world? how about the dynamics of such a relationship? would you feel like you were having to "raise" your wife? how would you handle possible resentment by one spouse against the other? do you think a wife WITH K-12 education would raise your kids differently compared to a wife WITHOUT K-12 education? similarly, do you think a wife WITHOUT the K-12 education would be able to help manage a household as effectively as a wife WITH the K-12 education?

[wheelworks]

sumiyia said:

is that realistic? would such a relationship really last very long? how long would it take you to give your wife a K-12 education? is just knowing right from wrong enough to get by in this world? how about the dynamics of such a relationship? would you feel like you were having to "raise" your wife? how would you handle possible resentment by one spouse against the other? do you think a wife WITH K-12 education would raise your kids differently compared to a wife WITHOUT K-12 education? similarly, do you think a wife WITHOUT the K-12 education would be able to help manage a household as effectively as a wife WITH the K-12 education?

Who knows if it's realistic or not? I'm inclined to think so. As always it depends on the circumstances and the couple. As for "raising" one's wife, providing financial support does not mean you raise them up. Raising would include discipline and guidance and what not which would apply more to kids than to an adult female. I'd like to think that once proper islamic morals are applied to a couple, the possibility of resentment coming up is greatly minimized.

I personally think that if a sister (and brothers in most cases) concentrated more on islamic teachings rather than exclusively on secular teachings (but not neglecting secular studies altogether) the children would be better off.

To put this situation into a real world perspective; It's like marrying someone from a tribe in a tribal/bedouin area. In all probability the women from the bedouins are much more knowledgeable and arabic literate than their western counterparts.

[TrentReznor858]

smrtengineer said:

example: the prophet married khadija. she was way more experienced than him. and at the time of marriage she was wiser, smarter, richer, well established, and. to boot. she was his EMPLOYER!! so here we have an example, where his piety was utmost important, and his material qualifications were secondary or even, arguably, ignored. he listened to her sage advice, and she submitted her will to him, and his will was submitted to allah's will.
]

Excellent example. Makes you wonder where all the insecure, inferiority complex-riddled boy-men came from when they are supposed to use the Prophet as their first and foremost example

[psychoteddybear]

wheelworks said:

Yep.

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[TrentReznor858]

psychoteddybear said:

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Im not touching that comment he made with a 10 foot pole

[wheelworks]

psychoteddybear said:

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[psychoteddybear]

wheelworks said:

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you make me laugh. as if you'd really do what you stated above. i love the holier than thou responses from so many of you cats on here.

[wheelworks]

psychoteddybear said:

don't get it? you are full of crap!

If you say so

Didja know that some people in Africa have never seen large bodies of water or excessive corruption before?

[psychoteddybear]

wheelworks said:

If you say so

Didja know that some people in Africa have never seen large bodies of water or excessive corruption before?

lol you caught my old post. i dont know you and i dont know if youd really have the patience to sit down and teach an uneducated woman things, but seriously....whatever dude.

and by your comment, i realize that i may be incessantly cynical about your intentions. i apologize. rock on, if you actually pull it off all the power to you. however, i really dont think you could handle it. most people would like to say that they can handle anything, but unfortunately thats not really the case.

wa salam

[wheelworks]

psychoteddybear said:

and by your comment, i realize that i may be incessantly cynical about your intentions. i apologize. rock on, if you actually pull it off all the power to you. however, i really dont think you could handle it. most people would like to say that they can handle anything, but unfortunately thats not really the case.

wa salam

I lived 10 years in Sri Lanka so my experiences are different from any given typical American. Who knows whether I'll actually be able to do so if given the chance; Allahu A'lam. I typically set "ideals" as my goals in life instead of facts and experience but even when I do that, experience eventually creeps into my decisions and fate takes over. As a result I can do many more things than most others because they don't attempt to take any risks for fear of failure.

I don't really know anyone who'd be able to go car free and rely on Bicycles as primary support. People would most likely scoff at any regular car commuter who said they wanted to attempt it...

As for my "holier than thou attitude". I'm sure most people would know the saying "it takes one to know one" and I've seen it apply to most Islamicans regularly (especially those who like to belittle others and their opinions)...

[Sabr_wa_Shukr]

if the truth comes to us, we should accept it...
if someone corrects me in some wrong I've done, I'd hope that insha'Allah I am able to put aside my pride and accept what they are saying of the truth... not retaliate by accusing them of such-and-such, or bringing out their own faults in return. I hope.