[jinnzaman]

This thread is dedicated to understanding the interplay between Ikhwan al Muslimeen, Salafism (per Jamal ad-Deen al-Afghani, Muhammad 'Abduh, and Rashid Rid'a), and Wahhabism (neo-Hanbalism per the Saudi state).

The Ikhwan went through two general phases: the first is the Salafi phase through Hasan al-Banna and the second phase was the fusion with Wahhabism which was through Syed Qutb.

In terms of al-Banna, both him and his father were, like many other Egyptians at the time, influenced by 'Abduh and Rida:

HIS CONCERN ON THE DECLINE OF ISLAM

The four years that Al-Banna spent in Cairo exposed him to the political ferment of the Egyptian capital in the early 1920s, and enhanced his awareness of the extent to which secular and Western ways had penetrated the very fabric of society. It was then that Al-Banna became particularly preoccupied with what he saw as the young generation"s drift away from Islam. He believed that the battle for the hearts and minds of the youth would prove critical to the survival of a religion besieged by a Western onslaught. While studying in Cairo, he immersed himself in the writings of the founders of Islamic reformism (the Salafiyya movement), including the Egyptian Muhammad "Abduh (1849-1905), under whom his father had studied while at Al-Azhar. But it was "Abduh"s disciple, the Syrian Rashid Rida (1865-1935), who most influenced Al-Banna.

Al-Banna was a dedicated reader of Al-Manar, the magazine that Rida published in Cairo from 1898 until his death in 1935. He shared Rida"s central concern with the decline of Islamic civilization relative to the West. He too believed that this trend could be reversed only by returning to an unadulterated form of Islam, free from all the accretions that had diluted the strength of its original message. Like Rida at the end of his life — but unlike "Abduh and other Islamic modernists — Al-Banna felt that the main danger to Islam"s survival in the modern age stemmed less from the conservatism of Al-Azhar and the ulama (which he nevertheless criticized) than from the ascendancy of Western secular ideas.[3]
IkhwanWeb

The second major shift in Ikhwani thought occurred during their exodus from Egypt to Saudi Arabia after their relationship with the secular Arab nationalist regimes in Egypt soured.

In the 1950s, Brotherhood activists -- reeling from their suppression in Egypt, Iraq and Syria -- found a refuge in Saudi Arabia, newly awash in oil money. Thousands of Ikhwanis became teachers, lawyers and engineers there, staffing government agencies, establishing Saudi universities and banks, and rewriting curricula.

With royal family approval, Brotherhood activists also launched the largest Saudi charities, including the Muslim World League in 1963 and the World Assembly of Muslim Youth in 1973. Funded by petro dollars, they became global missionaries spreading the Saudis' austere and rigid Wahhabi school of Islam, whose adherents at times describe all non-Wahhabis as infidels.

The Brotherhood began to fall out of favor with the Saudis in 1990, when the Ikhwan backed Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein in his invasion of Kuwait. The Saudis slowly cut off funding.

In Search Of Friends Among The Foes (washingtonpost.com)
Cold War, Holy Warrior

[jinnzaman]

[the_wrong_guy]

Jinn bhai,

If you'd referred to Ikhwani sources as well, you'd be in a better position to understand the intellectual roots of the movement.

Also, you're way off if you're confusing Salafi modernism represented by Abduh and Rida with the Salafi da'wah led by Albani, Najmee, Jabiree and others.

Also, the Washington Post article simplifies the Saudi-Ikhwani connection.

[the_wrong_guy]

If Syed Qutb and Manna' al-Qattan were Salafis, then Saleh Ashmawi, Mustafa Siba'i, Mustafa Zarqa' were traditional Ulema, and all of them were MAJOR figures in Ikhwan al-Muslimeen's history. [source: Tarikh Ikhwan al-Muslimin, the writings of all the scholars mentioned]
Muhammad al-Ghazali was arguably the most important of all Ikhwani writers, and he was a strong proponent of the Ahl ar-Ra'y. [source: As-Sunnah an-Nabawiyah bayna Ahl al-Hadith wa Ahl ar-Ra'y]

Syed Qutb's Salafi leanings are as representative of the Ikhwan as Hasan al-Banna's Sufi leanings. [source: Advisor Abdullah al-Aqil's biographies of Ikhwani leaders appearing in various Arabic newspapers] Syed Qutb's image prior to his imprisonment (and subsequent execution) was that of a writer(Adib), similar to Ahmed Amin and Taha Husain. [source: Karwan e Zindagi by Ali Mian Nadwi]

And Jinnz, what's gotten into you man? The Mother Jones article is built on lies upon lies. HT founded by Ramadan? HT funded by the Saudis? Taliban modeled on the Ikhwan? The Iranian Revolution's Ikhwani connection? SVR Nasr an expert on IJT? IJT modeled on squadristi? Ustadh Said Ramadan the "intellectual grandfather" of OBL? And one that beats everything - Said Ramadan a Wahhabi leader!!! There are hundreds of lies in the article and you're referring to it!

Hizb ut-Tahrir was founded by Sh. Taqiuddin an-Nabahani, not Said Ramadan. He wasn't even a supporter of the movement. [HT literature, people who knew Ramadan personally]

The Saudis have never supported/funded HT. They don't fund ANY movement that calls for the establishment of the Khilafah. Some of HT's strongest critics are senior Salafi scholars. [refutations of HT by several Saudi scholars]

The Taliban were not modeled on the Ikhwan. [Lecture on the Usrah system developed by Hasan al-Banna by one of my Ikhwani teachers. Sh. Qaradawi's books.]

The Islami Jamiat Talaba were not modeled on Mussoulini's squadristi. They had their own unique method of functioning, which was heavily influenced by the Jamat e Islami and Ikhwan al-Muslimoon. Their Karachi unit, whose leadership comprised of Khurshid Ahmad, Zafar Ishaq Ansari, Khurram Murad, Umer Chapra, Talat Sultan and others, was the most active. Their Lahore unit was headed by Dr Israr Ahmad and his brothers. They were not involved in ANY acts of vandalism against communist groups. [personal accounts about IJT in the 50s by everyone mentioned]

SVR Nasr is an idiot. [source: his papers published in various research journals and his book on Maududi]

Said Ramadan was not the "intellectual grandfather" of OBL. [writings of Ramadan, Al-Muslimoon, common sense]

Said Ramadan was Sufi. [accounts of people who personally knew Ramadan]

Bro, I don't know what your beef with the Ikhwan is, but NOTHING warrants supporting anti-Muslim non-Muslims against your Muslim brothers. Ustadh Said Ramadan(ra) was the teacher of some of our teachers, and a friend of our teacher's teacher: Maulana Abul Hasan Nadwi, and the father of our Ustadh and teacher: Shaykh Tariq Ramadan. He was the editor of the renowned Muslim journal - Al-Muslimoon, and a scholar and da'ee of the Ummah. He was highly influenced by Sufism, and placed great importance on Tazkiyah and Tarbiyah. May Allah forgive him and grant him a high station in paradise. Ameen.

[jinnzaman]

InshaAllah, you can post your sources and I'll post mine.

[MossadConspiracy]

salam

I dont think there was an exodus of Ikhwan members to Saudi Arabia, there was just a very large movement of Egyptians in general into Saudi Arabia at that point in time. Within that diaspora community, the muslim brotherhood could promote itself more freely than in Egypt because the Saudis thought they could use the Ikhwan to overthrow the Egyptian government. Its not like radical extremists were escaping from Egyptian prisons or being exiled and running away to Saudi Arabia.

Its also important to note that the movement in Egypt has for decades played along with the regime and continues to do so, they believe in a very long political struggle.

ws

[the_wrong_guy]

Jinnzaman,

So you're comfortable in accepting what you've "read in several books" and rejecting the defense provided by a scholarly Muslim family. Innocent until proven guilty, anyone?

Also, what's your response to the Ahadith quoted by bro Ibn Abu Ibrahim in the other thread?

[Jaysh]

the_wrong_guy said:

Jinnzaman,

So you're comfortable in accepting what you've "read in several books" and rejecting the defense provided by a scholarly Muslim family. Innocent until proven guilty, anyone?

Also, what's your response to the Ahadith quoted by bro Ibn Abu Ibrahim in the other thread?

As-Salam alaykum.

Bro Wrong Guy, I think I posted this somewhere else, but I am not sure...but can you tell me what are your opinions of Muhammad Abduh, Rida, and Jamal Din Al-Afghani? You generally give well-balanced answers, that recognize that we don't need to agree with someone 100% to love them, so yeah anyways, interested in hearing what you have to say. If you've already answered this (since I think I posted this elsewhere?), can you link me to that post? Jazakh-Allah khair.

And please keep in mind that I know next to nothing about them.

Fi Aman Allah