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Fight Night with Sister Dalia and Brother Irshad Menji Rate Topic: -----

#41 User is offline   TrentReznor858 

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 04:06 PM

SyedShoaib786 said:

Irshad manji is highly uneducated in the Islamic sciences...

i wonder what happened in her childhood for her to become this way...


Read her book. Her dad was an abusive ****head who chased her family around with knives, among other things. It really is not a shock she turned out the way she did. I think its really lame how muslims react to her; alot of the venom-laced responses Ive seen/heard are really pathetic and immature. You dont have to believe what she says, but please try not to have that knee-jerk response of "LYKEOMGZZZZSTUPIDLESBOLYKETOTALLY!!!!!!!oneoneoene"
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry,their passions a quotation - Oscar Wilde.
A wise person, does not, on account of an ugly and tattered veil, fail to pay attention to a beautiful face; and an understanding person does not, becasue fo bitter skin, throw away the delicious substance of a fruit. - Muhammad bin abdur Rahman Ebrahim
A dream is the answer to a question we do not know how to ask - Fox Mulder.
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#42 User is offline   Variable 

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 04:10 PM

I never noticed the lady's legs at all.
What kind of peace do I mean and what kind of a peace do we seek? Not a Pax Americana enforced on the world by American weapons of war.... not merely peace for Americans but peace for all men and women -- not merely peace in our time, but peace in all time.

JFK
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#43 User is offline   SyedShoaib786 

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 04:10 PM

TrentReznor858 said:

Read her book. Her dad was an abusive ****head who chased her family around with knives, among other things. It really is not a shock she turned out the way she did. I think its really lame how muslims react to her; alot of the venom-laced responses Ive seen/heard are really pathetic and immature. You dont have to believe what she says, but please try not to have that knee-jerk response of "LYKEOMGZZZZSTUPIDLESBOLYKETOTALLY!!!!!!!oneoneoene"


agreed.

but i figured its something like that, whenever I talk to people like that i try to remember their childhood maybe wasn't as well as mine (alhamdulilah) and that the vast majority have gone through problems much greater than mine (may Allah reward those who are patient) including Irshad manji...

Its called "conditional learning"...Islam (a neutral) became associated with her childhood (a negative)...and thus Islam (what was neutral) became a "conditioned stimulus" to her "conditioned responses"
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#44 User is offline   TrentReznor858 

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 04:13 PM

SyedShoaib786 said:

agreed.

but i figured its something like that, whenever I talk to people like that i try to remember their childhood maybe wasn't as well as mine (alhamdulilah) and that the vast majority have gone through problems much greater than mine (may Allah reward those who are patient) including Irshad manji...

Its called "conditional learning"...Islam (a neutral) became associated with her childhood (a negative)...and thus Islam (what was neutral) became a "conditioned stimulus" to her "conditioned responses"


Sort of. I think she is also using the worlds distaste for Islam as a platform for her 15 minutes of fame and to make money, but to each their own.
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry,their passions a quotation - Oscar Wilde.
A wise person, does not, on account of an ugly and tattered veil, fail to pay attention to a beautiful face; and an understanding person does not, becasue fo bitter skin, throw away the delicious substance of a fruit. - Muhammad bin abdur Rahman Ebrahim
A dream is the answer to a question we do not know how to ask - Fox Mulder.
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#45 User is offline   nunyobeezwax 

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 04:15 PM

^^ i've read parts of her bio but didn't finish it. i remember reading about that, she also had a lot of bad experiences at sunday school and with her islamic teachers. although it explains her behavior and beliefs it does not excuse anything since she's now an adult. she's also a lesbian, something that is a sin to act upon in islam and as far as i know, she has acted upon it (i dont personally believe its haraam to be gay, just haraam to act upon it).
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#46 User is offline   TrentReznor858 

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 04:17 PM

thejellymill said:

^yes i've read parts of her bio but didn't finish it. i remember reading about that, she also had a lot of bad experiences at sunday school and with her islamic teachers. although it explains her behavior and beliefs it does not excuse anything since she's an adult. she's also a lesbian, something that is a sin to act upon in islam but as far as i know, she has acted upon it (i dont personally believe its haraam to be gay, just haraam to act upon it).


So that excuses people's behavior? I dont think so.
Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry,their passions a quotation - Oscar Wilde.
A wise person, does not, on account of an ugly and tattered veil, fail to pay attention to a beautiful face; and an understanding person does not, becasue fo bitter skin, throw away the delicious substance of a fruit. - Muhammad bin abdur Rahman Ebrahim
A dream is the answer to a question we do not know how to ask - Fox Mulder.
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#47 User is offline   SyedShoaib786 

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 04:19 PM

TrentReznor858 said:

Sort of. I think she is also using the worlds distaste for Islam as a platform for her 15 minutes of fame and to make money, but to each their own.


i believe the fame and money only digs her deeper into her state...which may seem like a victory for her, but is indeed a punishment out of justice from Allah!...if only she knew..*sigh*
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#48 User is offline   Faaris 

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 04:22 PM

who the hell cares what she says/thinks about islam ... she ain't muslim.
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#49 User is offline   meraj 

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 05:01 PM

as salaamu alaikum,

everyone is entitled to their view, but do be careful about what you say about other muslims on this forum.

http://www.islamicaw...-i-declare.html

:rolleyes: meraj
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#50 User is offline   Faaris 

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 05:52 PM

meraj said:

as salaamu alaikum,

everyone is entitled to their view, but do be careful about what you say about other muslims on this forum.

http://www.islamicaw...-i-declare.html

:rolleyes: meraj
wa 'alayk as-salam
huh ... wtf ?!
what muslim ?

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#51 User is offline   sumi 

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 06:22 PM

i've seen about half of it so far but dalia mogahed is freaking awesome :rolleyes:
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#52 User is offline   m_ali_qazi 

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 06:27 PM

Brother Manji catered to the audience. She said things that they wanted to hear.

Not that Dalia's efforts were totally wasted. Even if she won over 2 or 3 people, it was worth it.
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#53 User is offline   psychoteddybear 

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 11:53 PM

Variable said:

I never noticed the lady's legs at all.

lol me neither... ?
"God will never change the condition of a people until they change that which is within themselves."
The Holy Quran, 13:11

The Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: "Religion is very easy, and whoever overburdens himself in his religion will not be able to continue in that way. So you should not be extremists, but try to be near to perfection and receive the good tidings that you will be rewarded."

Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Hadith 38
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#54 User is offline   Jaysh 

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Posted 20 October 2008 - 11:59 PM

psychoteddybear said:

lol me neither... ?


I did, but it was accidental and nobody is punished for what is accidental/unintentional. May Allah [swt] reward her.
Be like a rose which gives its fragrance even to those who crush it. - Ali (RA)

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#55 User is offline   jinnzaman 

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 12:09 AM

Variable said:

I never noticed the lady's legs at all.


Me either.

Some people need to lower their gaze a little more.
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#56 User is offline   sumi 

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 12:44 AM

so i finished watching it just now.. its almost unbearable having to listen to irshad manji tout herself as some sort of expert on islam and islamic scholarship. it was amusing to hear her refer an audience member (who asked about credible sources on islam for those who'd want to learn more) to her website of all places.. and i also loved the constant advertising of her book in her answers to questions when it really had nothing to do the questions.. and i've read her book btw... its not ground breaking or original. i have to say that i disagree with irshad on the lines she draws between reformist and moderate muslims, dalia made much more sense.
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#57 User is offline   Jaysh 

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 01:01 AM

sumiyia said:

its almost unbearable having to listen to irshad manji tout herself as some sort of expert on islam and islamic scholarship.


But it seems that she has realized that most Muslims do not consider her "authentic", as she lamented again and again. And now she is scholar-hunting as well, evidenced by her continual reference to some "Imam". It does seem like brother Irshad is evolving. Who knows, maybe she will convert to Islam eventually. B)

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it was amusing to hear her refer an audience member (who asked about credible sources on islam for those who'd want to learn more) to her website of all places.. and i also loved the constant advertising of her book in her answers to questions when it really had nothing to do the questions.. and i've read her book btw... its not ground breaking or original.
I think her motivation for this whole facade is fame and not conviction. Wallahu Aalim.

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i have to say that i disagree with irshad on the lines she draws between reformist and moderate muslims, dalia made much more sense.
To be fair, I am surprised that brother Irshad recognized that she is not a 'moderate' or 'mainstream' Muslim, but rather a 'reformist.' That's good. At least she was clear that she is not representative of Muslims in generality.

However, I think that brother Irshad needs to realize that she represents a very small tiny percentage of people who call themselves Muslims, on the order of less than a fraction of a percent. Whereas sister Dalia had data to support the idea that most Muslims support moderation, brother Irshad had to come up with the ridicolous excuse that maybe some Muslims were too fearful to express their true views in the Gallup poll. All of brother Irshad's evidence was anecdotal and nothing more, i.e. "After my lecture, a group of twenty people thanked me" or "I got a bunch of emails".

On an unrelated note, I think sister Dalia is the perfect dawah carrier. Simply perfect. She realizes that sometimes you need to evade questions in order to achieve the greater good. For example, she dodged questions that might have become attacks on brother Irshad. Mannn, sister Dalia is AWESOME. She wrote the book "who speaks for Islam", and I can honestly say that I would nominate her to speak for Islam any time. May Allah [swt] reward her with the best in this life and the next.

The only thing I would advise her is to sit a bit differently and not to keep playing with the water bottle. She kept drinking water, which doesn't look nice. But otherwise, she rocked.
Be like a rose which gives its fragrance even to those who crush it. - Ali (RA)

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#58 User is offline   the_wrong_guy 

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 01:13 AM

Dalia Mogahed is an intelligent woman.
Irshad Manji is a shrewd woman.
Most audiences abound in stupid people.
"I fear God and next to God I mostly fear them that fear Him not." - Sa'di of Shiraz
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#59 User is offline   Vickie 

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:07 AM

dalia's skirt is too short for a hijabi... or its the way she sits..
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#60 User is offline   Jaysh 

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Posted 21 October 2008 - 09:11 AM

Vickie said:

dalia's skirt is too short for a hijabi... or its the way she sits..


It's unintentional, so there is no blame on her.
Be like a rose which gives its fragrance even to those who crush it. - Ali (RA)

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