What are the differences between Imams & Prophets within Shi'aism

[Rida]

as salaamu `alaikum,

Can anyone explain the differences? From the outside they both seem identical.
Also what do the shi'ah believe regarding the finality of prophethood?

was-salaam

[TheQueen]

why don;t you go ask a shia scholar or website :s or maybe pull your finger out and do some research for yourself

[Rida]

Originally Posted by TheQueen

why don;t you go ask a shia scholar or website :s or maybe pull your finger out and do some research for yourself

I have read books that were contradictory and confusing which is why i figured it would be better to ask actual followers of the shi'ah faith (such as rahat or khairan).=)
jzakAllah for the naseehah though.

was-Salaam

[jinnzaman]

What Shi'as believe about their Imams is similar to what certain Sunnis believe about the Awliyah.

[LEGALEAGLE]

Originally Posted by Rida

I have read books that were contradictory and confusing which is why i figured it would be better to ask actual followers of the shi'ah faith (such as rahat or khairan).=)
jzakAllah for the naseehah though.

was-Salaam

Why pick on poor Rahat...hasn't he suffered enough ? and Khairan is Zaydi so he's not the type of Shia you're presumably referring to...

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by LEGALEAGLE

Why pick on poor Rahat...hasn't he suffered enough ? and Khairan is Zaydi so he's not the type of Shia you're presumably referring to...

"These are not the Shia you're looking for... move along"



Sorry, couldn't help it

[Chisti]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

What Shi'as believe about their Imams is similar to what certain Sunnis believe about the Awliyah.

hmmm ... similar in what ways? I think i know the differences between the two but not sure of the similarities.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by Chisti

hmmm ... similar in what ways? I think i know the differences between the two but not sure of the similarities.

- Both explicitly affirm the finality of prophethood, but state that spiritual guidance is necessary. For shias, its their Imams. for Sunnis, its the concept of a qutb.

- The concept of karamah applies to both

- Shrines are often built for both Imams and Sufis

- Tawassul and Istigatha is made through both

- The use of terminology of light and gnosis is similar for both

[Chisti]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

- Both explicitly affirm the finality of prophethood, but state that spiritual guidance is necessary. For shias, its their Imams. for Sunnis, its the concept of a qutb.

- The concept of karamah applies to both

- Shrines are often built for both Imams and Sufis

- Tawassul and Istigatha is made through both

- The use of terminology of light and gnosis is similar for both

True, and come to think of it most "shia imams" are actually considered Sufis . Jafar as Sadiq r.a. is part of the Naqshbandi tariqat etc

[rahat]

Salaam,

In Shia belief, the difference between the Prophet and Imams is that the Prophet receives direct revelation from Allah, and has authority over the Imams.

The Imams are not allowed to bring new fiqh or aqeedah or anything along those lines, but may only act within the words and teachings of Prophet Muhammad.

To create a phrase, the Prophet is the leader, and the Imams act as his deputies.

In Shia thought, the Prophet and Imams are considered inerrant and infallible. All hadith that imply otherwise are considered false hadith, to borrow a legal term, "prima facie", or in laymen's terms: without any further consideration.

This is the Shia Ithna Asheri, or "12er/Twelver" position.

I hope I have answered your question, please let me know if I have not.

-
rahat

[Rida]

Originally Posted by rahat

Salaam,

In Shia belief, the difference between the Prophet and Imams is that the Prophet receives direct revelation from Allah, and has authority over the Imams.

The Imams are not allowed to bring new fiqh or aqeedah or anything along those lines, but may only act within the words and teachings of Prophet Muhammad.

To create a phrase, the Prophet is the leader, and the Imams act as his deputies.

-
rahat

jzakAllah khair.
I'm still a bit confused though. Prophets don't come with new messages (atleast within sunni belief they don't). They usually are sent to (re)enforce the message/rules that the previous Messenger brought forth.
Is the definition of Prophet different within shiaism or did you accidently confuse Prophet with Messenger?

was-Salaam

[Jaysh]

Originally Posted by Rida

as salaamu `alaikum,

Can anyone explain the differences? From the outside they both seem identical.
Also what do the shi'ah believe regarding the finality of prophethood?

was-salaam

Wa alaykum as-salam, brother Rida:

Bismillah.

Ithna Ashari Shias may claim they believe in the finality of prophethood, but this is only how Lahori Qadianis similarly claim to believe in the finality of prophethood.

Please read this link here to understand how there is no real difference in Shi'ism between prophets and Imams:

Ahlel Bayt » Articles » Imams Superior to Prophets

In fact, if there is a difference, it is that they consider their Imams superior to the Prophets.

The fact that the Imams are exactly the same as Prophets--aside from the name--is admitted by their Allamah Majlisi (a very famous classical Shia scholar), who even admits that the Shia “might as well” call their Imams to be Prophets:

"On the whole, after admission of the fact that the Imams are not prophets, we are bound to acknowledge the fact that they are superior to all Prophets and Awsiya (legatees) except our Prophet (salutations and peace upon him and his family). To our knowledge there is no reason not to describe the Imams as Prophets except consideration to the status of the Final Prophet. Our intellect too, cannot perceive a distinction between Nabuwwah (prophethood) and Imamah."

Source: Bihar Al-Anwar, Volume 26, p.82

This should make the matter clear.

Fi Aman Allah

[Jaysh]

Originally Posted by rahat

Salaam,

In Shia belief, the difference between the Prophet and Imams is that the Prophet receives direct revelation from Allah, and has authority over the Imams.

The Imams are not allowed to bring new fiqh or aqeedah or anything along those lines, but may only act within the words and teachings of Prophet Muhammad.

To create a phrase, the Prophet is the leader, and the Imams act as his deputies.

This is the Shia Ithna Asheri, or "12er/Twelver" position.

As-Salam Alaykum, Rahat.

Bismillah.

I believe your post is (deliberate) obfuscation of the truth. You said that the Prophet [s] is the leader, and the Imams act as his deputies. This is a clever wording. However, let us be clear: yes, you do believe that Prophet Muhammad [s] is the leader of the Imams; however, this belief in Shi'ism is based on the fact that the Prophet [s] is an Imam himself, not because he is a prophet. In Shia belief, Imams are superior to Prophets, so it would not make sense to say that the Imams are subordinate to the Prophets. The only reason in Shia belief that Muhammad [s] is superior to Ali [ra] and the rest of the Imams is because Muhammad [s] is an Imam himself, not because he is a prophet.

Grand Ayatollah Mohammad Fazel Lankarani, one of the Head Ayatollahs in the Shia Seminary in Qum, issued the following statements on his official website:

"Imam Ali (Alayhi Salam) is higher in rank than other prophets, because of his Imamate, but he is not higher in rank than the Prophet Muhammad (saws), because Muhammad (saws) was both Prophet and Imam."

Source: http://www.lankarani.org/English/faq/110q.html

So let us be clear then: Imams are superior to Prophets, but not to Prophet Muhammad [s] because he was an Imam as well. In other words:

Imam Muhammad > Imam Ali and the rest of the imams > the rest of the prophets

Fi Aman Allah

[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

What Shi'as believe about their Imams is similar to what certain Sunnis believe about the Awliyah.

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

- Both explicitly affirm the finality of prophethood, but state that spiritual guidance is necessary. For shias, its their Imams. for Sunnis, its the concept of a qutb.

- The concept of karamah applies to both

- Shrines are often built for both Imams and Sufis

- Tawassul and Istigatha is made through both

- The use of terminology of light and gnosis is similar for both

While similarities can be found, that does not mean at all that the Shia view of Imams is similar as a whole to the Sunni view of awliya. AFAIK Shias have a concept of awliya that's independent from the Imamate (eg Junaid Baghdadi (RA)).

Some differences between the Sunni concept of awliya and the Shia concept of Imamate:

- Sunnis don't believe any wali is of higher status than any Nabi.

- Sunnis don't believe wilayat is hereditary.

- Sunnis don't believe that the awliya are free from error.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

While similarities can be found, that does not mean at all that the Shia view of Imams is similar as a whole to the Sunni view of awliya. AFAIK Shias have a concept of awliya that's independent from the Imamate (eg Junaid Baghdadi (RA)).

Some differences between the Sunni concept of awliya and the Shia concept of Imamate:

- Sunnis don't believe any wali is of higher status than any Nabi.

- Sunnis don't believe wilayat is hereditary.

- Sunnis don't believe that the awliya are free from error.

Concerning point 1, Shia's don't claim that.

Concerning point 3, some Sunnis believe that a wali of Allah has faith that increases

I'd also like to add the point that some people believe that while prophets are sinless (ma'sum), the awliyah are protected from sins (mah'fudh)