What are the differences between Imams & Prophets within Shi'aism

[Chisti]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

1. The issue of Allah's (subhana wa ta'ala) attributes isn't a fundamental article of faith in this instance. This is why you will not see Asharis and Hanbalis doing takfeer of each other. Rather the accusation is one of bid'a. Most Asharis and Hanbalis consider the other group still part of Ahl us Sunnah, but to a lesser degree.

I agree ... its an issue of bida.

2. One doesn't submit the attributes of Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) to logic or understands them to creation. It is illogical to say for a living being to be sane and insane at the same time. However, this principle is an inductive principle that is derived from our observations of physical objects and living things. One cannot apply such a principle to Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) since He is entirely free from the creation. Rather, all we know of Him is what He tells us and if He says He has a yadd, He has a yadd. What is this yadd like and how is it possible? We don't know because He doesn't tell us. We affirm the text and consign the meaning to Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) and emphasize His absolute dissimilarity to the creation. Some of the 'Ulema have stated that under certain situations, its acceptable to interpret what yadd means (such as "power") so as to show people that one cannot take it literally (a physical hand with parts).
I agree ...
3. There have been many Sunni 'Ulema of the past and even today that have done takfeer of Shias of all different sects. Only a handful of Barelwi-esque scholars don't do takfeer, but many of them are fairly ignorant of the actual beliefs of Shi'a 'Ulema. Most of them aren't aware of the distinctions between Akhbaris and Usulis.

Interesting, didn't know that. Maybe the takfir was done on Ismaili type shias?
However, the stuff Jaysh pointed out from Al-Islam.org is quite disturbing in the sense that it is not public knowledge for most of us.

[rahat]

Salaam,

In regards to the difference between the Prophets and Imams, I hope I can elaborate some more:

Prophets are categorized into multiple categories: I.e. a Rasool is somewhat different than a Nabi, some Prophets were made "Imams" (Quran 2:124). My understanding is that the difference between a Rasool and a Nabi is the type of revelation that they receive. The "additional" trait of being an Imam, is that you gain leadership over a community.

Many Prophets did not lead their communities in a "ruler" type of format, however, many other Prophets did in fact do so.

The 12 Imams of Shiaism (Ithna Asheri) are specifically designated "Imams" or "Leaders of the Community" by Allah and Prophet Muhammad. They do not receive revelation, and are not Prophets in any regard.

In Shia thought, they are the masters of the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad, and literally perfect in following the traditions and teachings of their grandfather. It is considered impossible for them to do anything that opposes or contradicts the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad.

Furthermore, they are considered to have the highest level of accurate and authentic knowledge regarding the teachings of Prophet Muhammad, so much so that they would never make a statement that is even minorly contradictory to the sayings of Prophet Muhammad.

Our belief is also that they are the continuation of Allah's promise in the Quran to keep a representative on the Earth, similarly mentioned in the "12 caliphs" hadith in Sahih Bukhari.

I hope this gives you an accurate view of what Shia Ithna Asheri believe.

-
rahat

[wheelworks]

It's interesting that alot of the people who are considered "religious" on this forum are more concerned about facts than about the deeper meanings and understandings that the facts are supposed to represent.

It sort of devalues the hadith "Actions are by it's intentions" don't you think?

[LEGALEAGLE]

Originally Posted by rahat

Salaam,

In regards to the difference between the Prophets and Imams, I hope I can elaborate some more:

Prophets are categorized into multiple categories: I.e. a Rasool is somewhat different than a Nabi, some Prophets were made "Imams" (Quran 2:124). My understanding is that the difference between a Rasool and a Nabi is the type of revelation that they receive. The "additional" trait of being an Imam, is that you gain leadership over a community.

Many Prophets did not lead their communities in a "ruler" type of format, however, many other Prophets did in fact do so.

The 12 Imams of Shiaism (Ithna Asheri) are specifically designated "Imams" or "Leaders of the Community" by Allah and Prophet Muhammad. They do not receive revelation, and are not Prophets in any regard.

In Shia thought, they are the masters of the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad, and literally perfect in following the traditions and teachings of their grandfather. It is considered impossible for them to do anything that opposes or contradicts the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad.

Furthermore, they are considered to have the highest level of accurate and authentic knowledge regarding the teachings of Prophet Muhammad, so much so that they would never make a statement that is even minorly contradictory to the sayings of Prophet Muhammad.

Our belief is also that they are the continuation of Allah's promise in the Quran to keep a representative on the Earth, similarly mentioned in the "12 caliphs" hadith in Sahih Bukhari.

I hope this gives you an accurate view of what Shia Ithna Asheri believe.

-
rahat

If your Imam's are infallible in their compliance with the sunnah (which is the absolute form of submission to Allah swt) then what is the difference between them and the Prophets ?

Also can your Imam's forget to do something from the Sunna ?

[rahat]

Salaam,

Prophet Muhammad's every action was Sunnah, the Imams cannot create something new or add to any Sunnah of the Prophet, they are entirely restricted to what the Prophet did, said, or purposely did not do.

I'm afraid I don't understand ur second question. The Imams cannot forget any of the Sunnah of the Prophet, but like ... they don't live mirror lives to the Prophet in an attempt to carry out every possible Sunnah ... if that makes sense? Can you clarify the q?

-
rahat