Glimpses Into Early Wahhabi Thought

[Jaysh]

21. Iran Under Safavids: by Roger Savory

Coins were minted in Ismai's name, but his most important action was to pronounce that the official religion of the new Safavid state would be Ithna Ahsari, or "Twelver", Shi'ism. The implications of this pronouncement...changed the whole course of subsequent Iranian history...

Some of Ismail's adviers were worried about the reaction to the announcement. "Of the 200,000-300,000 people in Tabriz", they said, "two-thirds are Sunni...we fear that hte people may say they do not want a Shi'i sovereign, and if (which God forbid!) the people reject Shi'ism, what can we do about it?"

Ismail's reply was uncompromising: he had been commissioned to perform this task, he said, and God and the immaculate Imams were his companions; he feared no one. "With God's help," he said, "if the people utter one word of protest, I will draw the sword and leave not one of them alive..."

Whatever he might say in public, Ismail was worried about the outcome, but he was reassured by Ali in a dream: "O son, do not let anxiety trouble your mind...let all the qizilbash be present in the mosuqe fully armed, and let them surround the people; if, when the khutbah is recited, the people make any movement, the qizilbash will be able to deal with the situation, since they surround the people."

The imposition of Shi'ism in a country, which, officially at least, was still predominantly Sunni, obviously not be achieved without incurring opposition, or without a measure of persecution of those who refused to conform. Disobedience was punishable by death, and the threat of force was there from the beginning...Some were put to death; many more fled to areas where Sunnism still prevailed.

Iran Under the Safavids - Google Book Search


22. Sitara Group of Companies:

The Safavids belonged to a Sufi religious order and made Shiite Islam the official religion of Iran, undertaking a major conversion campaign of Iranian Muslims.

A brief history of Iran

[LEGALEAGLE]

The history of Bastak can be traced back to the Safavids era. When the Safavids under Ismail I decided to convert everyone residing in current day Iran from Sunni to Shiite Islam in 1501, they started arranged attacks and massacres against the Sunni Persians who refused to convert. As a result, many Sunni Persians left their hometowns for the Zagros mountains. After the Battle of Chaldiran where the Safavids lost to the Ottoman the Sunni Persians descended from the mountains to begin a new life in the land they named "Bastak", meaning barrier or backstop signifying barrier from Shiite Safavids' attacks and influences.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastak

[Jaysh]

23. A History of Islamic Societies, by Ira Marvin Lapidus

The Conversion of Iran to Shi'ism

Shah Ismail claimed to be the manifestation of God, the divine fire of the hidden imam, and the mahdi. He titled himself the Shadow of God on Earth, in the manner of Persian emperors. As the descendent of the seventh imam, an infallible leader, and an emanation of the divine being, his authority was absolute and unquestioned...Ismail's messianic claims were set aside in favor of "twelver" Shi'ism, a more institutionalized form of Shi'ism which was proclaimed the official religion of Iran. Ismail, however, had little to build on; though there were pockets of Shi'i in Qum and Isfahan, the majority of the population was Sunni. Ismail imported "twelver" Shi'i scholars...

To sustain the official religion, the Safavids embarked on a bold program to eliminate all rival forms of Islam in what had been a highly pluralistic society. "Twelver" Shi'ism was imposed by a wave of persecutions which has little or no parallel in other Muslim regions....Abbas I massacred his Sufi disciples, who were accused of collaborating with the Ottomans and of failing to place the will of the master before all other concerns.

The dominance of Shi'ism was further assured by the violent suppression of Sunnism. The Safavids ritually insulted the memory of the first three Caliphs and violated the tombs of Sunni scholars. Sufi shrines were destroyed; Isamil desecrated Naqshbandi tombs, and suppressed the Khalwatiya, Dhahabiya, and Nurbakhshiya orders...the pilgrimage to Mecca was deemphacized in favor of ritual visits to the shrines of Shi'i imams. The persecution of Sunnis and Sufis continued sporadically throughout the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries until Muhammad Baqi al-Majlisi, the head of the Shi'i Ulema, completed the suppression of Sunnism and expelled the remaining Sufis from Isfahan.

A History of Islamic Societies - Google Book Search

[Chisti]

Okay

1. we may have digressed just a little bit here ... the post was not only accusing Abdul Wahab of killing other sunnis (which Jaysh has said that was not the case) ... I personally don't know which point is accurate since I haven't studied much about that era ....

2. BUT, the post was also discussing the point that Abdul Wahab and his followers were not necessarily against ALL Sufi teachings ... except for a few which they considered Bidah ... And I believe Jaysh agrees with that view (especially when he says Deobandis are closest of all groups to them) ...

3. Another point the post was claiming was that the wahabi uprising was in part accepted by some major Sufis of the west (Morocco) ... and that during that point in time there was already some Sufis who wanted to fix the wrong practices - thus the author said that Sufi revivalists influenced the wahahbi reform movement .... and such reforms were happening all over the place for instance Allama Iqbal and his contemporaries spoke of need for the ummah to "improve it self"

Allama Iqbal had praised the wahabi movement also, so it seems like that at that point the idea was that the wahabis were a "revival" force that wanted to lead the ummah out of their bondage and problems due to colonialism etc ...However, there were some groups within the movement that perhaps went to extremes OR perhaps took advantage of it to kill muslims and take their property - after all the tribal mentatily was still there - loot and plunder.

Personally, had the wahahbi movement been more accepting of the Four Schools of Thought, by not stopping their prayers in the Holy City, etc. And had they been more gentle in their propagation of ideas then things would have been different and better. Just my view.
I think the killings and the jumping to takfir may have been drawbacks that not even the types of Allama Iqbal, Moroccon Sufis, Deobandis etc liked thus wahahbis may have lost support from among those quarters as well.

Forgot to point out - Jaysh you had said that the shaykhs I follow are different from Deobandis - well I think that they mostly disagree on building tombs etc ... otherwise they are pretty much on the same path. For instance, Shaykh Muhammed Al Alawi Al Maliki he had ijazas from both Barelwi and Deobandi scholars besides hundreds of other scholars ... he was what you would say a "hardcore" Sufi .... you can find videos of his on youtube to prove my point. Also, he believed in the post we were discussing about the Prophets being alive spiritually (where I provided proofs from his view too, i think).

Ask any Deobandi ulema about what his views are regarding him, and I think not a single one say any thing bad about him. Whereas the wahabi ulema had issues with him all his life - they tried to kick him out of Makkah and get him banned etc ... luckily King Fahad and King Abdullah respected him and thus protected him from the onslaught of attacks.

Just wanted to point out the type of ulema I follow are well respected within the Ahl-e-SUnnah-wa Jamah ...

[LEGALEAGLE]

Jaysh said

23. A History of Islamic Societies, by Ira Marvin Lapidus



A History of Islamic Societies - Google Book Search

Wow...but I thought Rahat said he loves the Sufi Sunni's...if he doesn't like the Salafi's and the above shows his coreligionists hate the Sufi Sunni's then which Sunni group is left ?

[Abu_Hind]

Chisti said

Since you have nothing of substance you revert to attacking the person ...

Says the guy who first attacks then pretends he didn't attack. You're seriously one perturbed individual. You knew what direction this thread would go into- and that's exactly what you wanted. Thanks for another pointless thread full of hate mongering. Your tassawuf is sure as hell doing you a lot of good!

[LEGALEAGLE]

Abu_Hind said

Says the guy who first attacks then pretends he didn't attack. You're seriously one perturbed individual. You knew what direction this thread would go into- and that's exactly what you wanted. Thanks for another pointless thread full of hate mongering. Your tassawuf is sure as hell doing you a lot of good!

I think you need to take a chill pill....maybe have a bebsi..threads go where their contributors and not necessarily their authors want...

[Chisti]

LEGALEAGLE said

I think you need to take a chill pill....maybe have a bebsi..threads go where their contributors and not necessarily their authors want...

thanks LEGALEAGLE ... this thread was interesting in that it showed how close some Sufi and Wahahbi scholars were! ... how is that hate mongering???

As far as the Shia Sunni thing ... I for sure did not start that. That was Rahat.

I dont know why people have to go to extremes. On one hand we have you who wants to put Abdul Wahab on a pedestal (which is fine if you respect him) but that does not mean we cannot have a discussion. On the other hand we have Rahat who goes to another extreme of hating...

[Abu_Hind]

LEGALEAGLE said

I think you need to take a chill pill....maybe have a bebsi..threads go where their contributors and not necessarily their authors want...

I'm chill bro, just don't like the doghla-pan of some so-called "sufis", reminds me of rafidhi taqiyyah.

[LEGALEAGLE]

Chisti said

thanks LEGALEAGLE ... this thread was interesting in that it showed how close some Sufi and Wahahbi scholars were! ... how is that hate mongering???

As far as the Shia Sunni thing ... I for sure did not start that. That was Rahat.

I dont know why people have to go to extremes. On one hand we have you who wants to put Abdul Wahab on a pedestal (which is fine if you respect him) but that does not mean we cannot have a discussion. On the other hand we have Rahat who goes to another extreme of hating...

I'm sorry are you sure you have the right person ?.......might I suggest that you calm down and check before making wild accusations based on speculation ?

[MossadConspiracy]

Seems like we're getting glimpses into the modern as well as the early

ws

[Chisti]

LEGALEAGLE said

I'm sorry are you sure you have the right person ?.......might I suggest that you calm down and check before making wild accusations based on speculation ?

Oh no that wasn't for you ... that was for Abu Hind .. I apologize.

[LEGALEAGLE]

Chisti which tariqa are you a member of ? Chishtia ?

[Chisti]

LEGALEAGLE said

Chisti which tariqa are you a member of ? Chishtia ?

Why would you think I am a member of any Tariqa ?

[LEGALEAGLE]

Chisti said

Why would you think I am a member of any Tariqa ?

well are you ?