[MuslimZ]

Maybe the dingo ate your baby?

[Rambo]

Originally Posted by navid

Eh, don't waste the police's time on that. Only report if they are intending to cause terrorism.

no, in my opinion people who support terrorism should be reported too.

[SyedShoaib786]

Originally Posted by Rambo

i am not saying you to call them kaffirs because only Allah knows who is kaffir or not but you people actually defend them thats my problem, you people are really hypocrytical.

The bottam line I sense is you still have care and sympathy for these people down in your hearts.

im pretty sure u didn't mean me when u said "you people".

yes, i do care for all muslimeen, criminals or not...is punishment not a mercy for them? If found guilty according to Quran and the sunnah then I would be the first to carry out the punishment upon them. but you need to look at it as that, not as a hate for a person...yes those who kill innocents need to be brought to justice, either by paying the blood money or death...but this is for any muslim who harms an innocent, whether attached to a political motive (terrorism and war) or not...

u at some time of ur life harbored dirty thoughts, u at some time in your life transgressed what is halal...does that mean we should hate you for it? no...because the mercy of Allah is great, anyone can change themselves for the better. and if you hate the person, no matter how much they may change you will not find it in you to look upon them in a different way other than hate...this is contrary to our beliefs and the sunnah or rasulAllah (salAllahu aleyhi wasalam)....

for example (and i really hope you do read this)...a man may commit adultery one day, and you may see him...and now for that you harbor ill feelings against him, then at night that man truly repents and does good deeds...now according to Quran and sunnah not only is the sin wiped away, but it may turn into good deeds...and of this you have no idea he did that, so now you hate a man for doing a good deed? not to mention as RasulAllah (saw) has said "a sin that is forgiven is like it has never happened at all" (translation obviously)...so now u hate the man for no reason...that same man Allah looks high upon...would u then still expect to be looked high upon?

so yes those who kill innocents must be met with punishment, but as a mercy and due to our submission to sharia', we should always be hesitant in dealing out punishments as per sunnah...if we punish according to our hate, then we will certainly transgress and cause more harm than good...which is something both sides are equally guilty of.

Allahu alim...i hope u read this and understand.

-your brother in deen, Shoaib.

Asalamualaikum

[Rambo]

Originally Posted by SyedShoaib786

im pretty sure u didn't mean me when u said "you people".

yes, i do care for all muslimeen, criminals or not...is punishment not a mercy for them? If found guilty according to Quran and the sunnah then I would be the first to carry out the punishment upon them. but you need to look at it as that, not as a hate for a person...yes those who kill innocents need to be brought to justice, either by paying the blood money or death...but this is for any muslim who harms an innocent, whether attached to a political motive (terrorism and war) or not...

u at some time of ur life harbored dirty thoughts, u at some time in your life transgressed what is halal...does that mean we should hate you for it? no...because the mercy of Allah is great, anyone can change themselves for the better. and if you hate the person, no matter how much they may change you will not find it in you to look upon them in a different way other than hate...this is contrary to our beliefs and the sunnah or rasulAllah (salAllahu aleyhi wasalam)....

for example (and i really hope you do read this)...a man may commit adultery one day, and you may see him...and now for that you harbor ill feelings against him, then at night that man truly repents and does good deeds...now according to Quran and sunnah not only is the sin wiped away, but it may turn into good deeds...and of this you have no idea he did that, so now you hate a man for doing a good deed? not to mention as RasulAllah (saw) has said "a sin that is forgiven is like it has never happened at all" (translation obviously)...so now u hate the man for no reason...that same man Allah looks high upon...would u then still expect to be looked high upon?

so yes those who kill innocents must be met with punishment, but as a mercy and due to our submission to sharia', we should always be hesitant in dealing out punishments as per sunnah...if we punish according to our hate, then we will certainly transgress and cause more harm than good...which is something both sides are equally guilty of.

Allahu alim...i hope u read this and understand.

-your brother in deen, Shoaib.

Asalamualaikum

seriously man i think your going way overboard with being nice, your living in a fantasy world, things dont work out that way in real i am glad and I dont think what your saying is islamically true either. These people have killed thousands of people, its not minor crimes as you seem to be suggesting. There is no way some one can forgive these monsters for thier crimes, they should be all given the most harsh of punishments

In my view you do have sympathy for these people who kill, stop hiding your true intentions ok.

[Jaysh]

Question:

Honorable Shaykh, some of the youth come sometimes and ask about this issue: if I find someone who defends these people (the Khawārij, terrorists, etc.) and their plots, should I turn them in and inform (the authorities) of them?

Answer:

So, anyone who falls into these issues [i.e. deviant ideology of the terrorists], he should be sincerely advised and explained the reality of these matters. If he desists, then thanks are due to Allah. If he does not desist yet he keeps quiet and does not actually do anything [or plan to do anything], then leave him [i.e. do not report him] – his sin is upon himself. But if he actually and outwardly does something [or plans to do that]...[or if he is] spreading this filthy ideology [amongst the youth, inciting them to violence]...then it is an obligation to turn him in.

This is a part of being sincere to Allah, His book, His messenger, to the Muslim leaders and the common people.

Shaykh Salih al-Fawzan

[Jaysh]

Islamtoday.com: Reporting Extremist Activities to a Non-Muslim Government

There are Muslims in the East and the West who choose to follow an austere and harsh – some might say "extreme" – approach to religious matters, both in their worship and in their interactions with others in society. Some of these people go further and try to insist that other Muslims conform to their ideas about religion, especially in matters of worship. In spite of all that, they do not subscribe to the "jihâdî" ideas of resorting to violence against their non-Muslim neighbors. They do not wish for any violence to take place at present nor do they do not plan to perpetrate acts of violence against anyone at any time in the future. If they were to hear someone suggest to them perpetrating acts of violence against others, they would be deeply offended and disgusted by the idea.

Such people should certainly not be reported to the authorities since they do not pose a threat to anyone in society, nor do they present a threat to the government or to national security [even though we disagree with their extremism in worship].

Then there are others...who adopt a "jihâdî" approach to non-Muslims...These people legitimate violence against non-Muslims and make plans to carry out various violent acts in society. They often actively encourage other Muslims to subscribe to their deviant views and to participate in carrying out acts of destruction and violence. They establish secret organizations and associations to further their criminal objectives. Their plots only surface once they carry out their crimes in civil society.

It is permissible to report such people to the authorities in a non-Muslim country. This is necessary to prevent their ignoble activities form causing genuine harm to innocent people in society; people – whether Muslim or non-Muslim – whose lives are sacrosanct in Islam. The fact that the criminals in question are Muslims does not prevent us from reporting them to the non-Muslim authorities, especially when there is no other effective and practical way to advise those Muslims and to prevent them from perpetrating serious violent and destructive criminal acts like the detonation of bombs in public areas.

There can be no doubt that turning such people in to the authorities causes those people harm. However, this is to prevent a far greater harm. It is a general axiom of Islamic Law that a lesser harm is to be borne if it is necessary for the prevention of a greater harm. We may not like the idea that the non-Muslim authorities will be dealing with these Muslims, and that those Muslims could face criminal proceedings and even punishment. However, this is something unavoidable in order to prevent tragedies of a much greater scale and magnitude. If we fail to report those who are planning to perpetrate acts of violence in our societies, then many innocent people – Muslims and non-Muslims alike – will pay the price.

At the same time, it must be emphasized that no one should report anyone else to the authorities without first ascertaining that the person truly poses a threat to society. People should not go around reporting others on the basis of mere suspicions that are as likely to be as false as they are to be true. Only those who are confirmed to be harboring a violent intent should be reported to the authorities. Also, if there is a chance of convincing people who harbor such tendencies to mend their ways, this is always the better approach. However, if there is no other way to protect society from a real threat that a person's activities presents, then it is clear that the person must be reported to the authorities.

And Allah knows best.

Shaykh Sâmî al-Mâjid

[Rambo]

Originally Posted by Jaysh

Question:

Honorable Shaykh, some of the youth come sometimes and ask about this issue: if I find someone who defends these people (the Khawārij, terrorists, etc.) and their plots, should I turn them in and inform (the authorities) of them?

Answer:

So, anyone who falls into these issues [i.e. deviant ideology of the terrorists], he should be sincerely advised and explained the reality of these matters. If he desists, then thanks are due to Allah. If he does not desist yet he keeps quiet and does not actually do anything [or plan to do anything], then leave him [i.e. do not report him] – his sin is upon himself. But if he actually and outwardly does something [or plans to do that]...[or if he is] spreading this filthy ideology [amongst the youth, inciting them to violence]...then it is an obligation to turn him in.

This is a part of being sincere to Allah, His book, His messenger, to the Muslim leaders and the common people.

Shaykh Salih al-Fawzan

does that include spreading this ideology over the net? i see many people doing that.

[Jaysh]

Originally Posted by Rambo

does that include spreading this ideology over the net? i see many people doing that.

The net is just like real life. But keep in mind that you must ascertain if the threat is real.

And you must also warn and advise them before you report them, in hopes that they come back to the path of righteousness.

[SyedShoaib786]

Originally Posted by Rambo

seriously man i think your going way overboard with being nice, your living in a fantasy world, things dont work out that way in real i am glad and I dont think what your saying is islamically true either. These people have killed thousands of people, its not minor crimes as you seem to be suggesting. There is no way some one can forgive these monsters for thier crimes, they should be all given the most harsh of punishments

In my view you do have sympathy for these people who kill, stop hiding your true intentions ok.

i already said those who deserve justice should get it...i have already stated that i'd be the first to carry out the punishment on the murderers of innocents, in this case terrorists, but only in accordance with sharia as my desire is to submit to sharia, not submit to my desire (in this case, hate) ...u turn deaf to what I say then how will anything i say ever get in that tiny head of yours?, may Allah make you as deaf towards the haram, as you are to what i say....u wish what you think of me to be true, Allah knows better... we act in accordance with what Allah and his messenger (saw) has given us, not in accordance with our hate.

-the day we make our deen submit to our 'aql is the day we lose our deen. the day our 'aql submits to our deen is the day we are successful.

plz infom me as to what i said went against the teachings of our deen so that i may improve upon myself inshaAllah.

-Asalamualaikum

[Rambo]

Originally Posted by SyedShoaib786

i already said those who deserve justice should get it...i have already stated that i'd be the first to carry out the punishment on the murderers of innocents, in this case terrorists, but only in accordance with sharia as my desire is to submit to sharia, not submit to my desire (in this case, hate) ...u turn deaf to what I say then how will anything i say ever get in that tiny head of yours?, may Allah make you as deaf towards the haram, as you are to what i say....u wish what you think of me to be true, Allah knows better... we act in accordance with what Allah and his messenger (saw) has given us, not in accordance with our hate.

-the day we make our deen submit to our 'aql is the day we lose our deen. the day our 'aql submits to our deen is the day we are successful.

plz infom me as to what i said went against the teachings of our deen so that i may improve upon myself inshaAllah.

-Asalamualaikum

prove what your saying is islamically correct? in islam we are suppose to punish these sort of criminals very harshly, the ones who claim to do these crimes.
People like you punish women if they are raped yet treat terrorists so kindly, this is what you are like.

[Rambo]

also in islam aren't we allowed to hate our enemy? why are you being so sissy for? your sissiness has nothing to do with Islam, its your own weakness, i get a feeling you wont even fight if your family is killed.

[SyedShoaib786]

Originally Posted by Rambo

prove what your saying is islamically correct? in islam we are suppose to punish these sort of criminals very harshly, the ones who claim to do these crimes.
People like you punish women if they are raped yet treat terrorists so kindly, this is what you are like.

you do not know me...and this is slander...you should be more mindful of Allah...
lol if it had been a year ago i wouldve lost my temper with you.

[Rambo]

dude prove what your saying is in Islam? you can't can you? Islam is not a sissy religion.

[SyedShoaib786]

Originally Posted by Rambo

also in islam aren't we allowed to hate our enemy? why are you being so sissy for? your sissiness has nothing to do with Islam, its your own weakness, i get a feeling you wont even fight if your family is killed.

I feel it is best to respect your enemy, if they can fight fiercely for a false belief, they can fight even more fierce for a true one. however, we still hate the actions, but not the people committing them.

We should not be so gentle with the fact Allah did not put us in their position, we should show humility towards the fact that we are not in their position as that would have been easy for Allah to do...as sayyidna Abdul Qadir (ra) said in terms of iman..."do not feel safe", why should i show pride in my imaan by hating the people who do evil things? Were we all not born on the fitra?...of course we were. we were all born on the fitra, after which some were guided, and out of justice, some were misguided.

[SyedShoaib786]

Originally Posted by Rambo

dude prove what your saying is in Islam? you can't can you? Islam is not a sissy religion.

i have mentioned Quran, hadith and the sayings of the khalaf in my text to support my positions...

to me it seems it takes more strength to come to this sissy position than to inflame our chests.