Saying Salam to the Opposite Gender

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by sumiyia

and that's fine. that's all i'm asking. if you keep it professional and businesslike, you're probably not going to ignore them completely. a professional/business-like salaam is all i ask. i'm not saying give me a hug and kiss on top of it or something. it's two words. you say it and move on.

But the point of the fatwa is that you don't necessarily have to give or return a salam either.

[Timbit]

m_ali_qazi: Did you completely miss the last part of my post? I said I used to be offended by it 'cause I thought it was rude. Do they think my sexuality is so volatile that I'm going to tempt them just by them looking at me? Is that all they see me as? A sexual being?

I'm still a little uncomfortable with it, but I'm realizing that it's not about me, but about them. Maybe the implication is that they're easily tempted. In which case, they're lowering their own gaze (literally). They're not impinging upon me. So now I try to accomodate them.

[sumiyia]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

But the point of the fatwa is that you don't necessarily have to give or return a salam either.

but that's where there's a difference of opinion, right?

It is not obligatory to return any greeting except the greeting of peace.

Responding to greeting other than salam

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

Rudeness is a subjective cultural construct. Stop being Eurocentric.

Gender relations are defined by the Shari'ah, not by how rich white people behave.

rrrriiigggghhhttt..... which is why so many Muslim boys can't manage a single salam to Muslim girls, or ignore them altogether, but have no problem chatting it up with non-Muslim girls, having girlfriends, marrying them.... yeah, we're REAL GOOD as a community about balanced gender relations according to Shariah, real good.

There's got to be some middle ground. The non-Muslim girlfriend problem was so bad in my old community (with boys marrying non-Muslims and Muslim girls never even being approached for marriage) that we actually had lectures talking about better ways to interact with the opposite sex. It's a problem.

With the TJ example Timbit gave, at least they talked to you. So what if they didn't look at you, big deal. They talked to you, acknowledged your presence, conveyed their message in the proper manner, and that's a good thing. I wouldn't have been offended in the least by that.

[m_ali_qazi]

Originally Posted by Timbit

m_ali_qazi: Did you completely miss the last part of my post? I said I used to be offended by it 'cause I thought it was rude. Do they think my sexuality is so volatile that I'm going to tempt them just by them looking at me? Is that all they see me as? A sexual being?

why do you have that presumption on their intention? why cant you just say, "hey this is the level of etiquette these people have with women, more power to them inshallah, to each their own"............khalas

[amina9183]

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

Like, if someone is a "mountain of a man," do they need to have billy goats climbing on them and people skiing down them?

i was drinking soda when i read that, and i choked on it.

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

It means they're a person of beautiful character



Why not?



Do you think that when a metaphor is used, all properties of the objects that form the metaphor in question must be analogous?

Like, if someone is a "mountain of a man," do they need to have billy goats climbing on them and people skiing down them?

That's what I said. Good qualities. A gem of a guy is a guy that has good qualities.

That's such an abstract question. Give an example.

No, but it is here. Many people follow that line of reasoning. It's one of the reasons given for hijab by many, many scholars (and laypeople). Muslim women are precious gems which must be covered and kept protected and hidden from the sights of others. Just as you don't walk around displaying a diamond in your hand, you don't display your women. Or yourself if you are a woman.

[thejellymill]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

Well, people are taking their values from corporate America which is predominantly comprised of rich white males.

Dumbest sentence ever.

Originally Posted by amina9183

i was drinking soda when i read that, and i choked on it.

hahaha i know! I choked on my water!

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by m_ali_qazi

why do you have that presumption on their intention? why cant you just say, "hey this is the level of etiquette these people have with women, more power to them inshallah, to each their own"............khalas

Level of etiquette? High level or low level? Is it good etiquette or bad etiquette or just their etiquette?

[thejellymill]

We are descending into the depths of yet another stupid Islamica argument... I wouldn't be surprised if one day Islamicans started arguing how many angels can dance on a pinhead . Stop bickering endlessly about the same minute points, it's so dumb.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by sumiyia

but that's where there's a difference of opinion, right?


Responding to greeting other than salam

Hmm, where in that fatwa do they discuss returning salam to the opposite gender?

[sumiyia]

Originally Posted by thejellymill

We are descending into the depths of yet another stupid Islamica argument... I wouldn't be surprised if one day Islamicans started arguing how many angels can dance on a pinhead . Stop bickering endlessly about the same minute points, it's so dumb.

yea.. i'm done.

[m_ali_qazi]

Originally Posted by Timbit

Level of etiquette? High level or low level? Is it good etiquette or bad etiquette or just their etiquette?

THEIR etiquette, they have theirs, you have yours.....khatam

everyone needs to chill and stop hating on each others freedoms and way of life

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

rrrriiigggghhhttt..... which is why so many Muslim boys can't manage a single salam to Muslim girls, or ignore them altogether, but have no problem chatting it up with non-Muslim girls, having girlfriends, marrying them.... yeah, we're REAL GOOD as a community about balanced gender relations according to Shariah, real good.

There's got to be some middle ground. The non-Muslim girlfriend problem was so bad in my old community (with boys marrying non-Muslims and Muslim girls never even being approached for marriage) that we actually had lectures talking about better ways to interact with the opposite sex. It's a problem.

With the TJ example Timbit gave, at least they talked to you. So what if they didn't look at you, big deal. They talked to you, acknowledged your presence, conveyed their message in the proper manner, and that's a good thing. I wouldn't have been offended in the least by that.

Right, and there are plenty of Muslimahs who have non-Muslim boy friends, don't wear hijab, have pre-marital sex, gossip, backbite, spread rumors, etc. So not only is your example a bad one, its not even relevant to the judgment itself. Just because some Muslims don't follow a particular ruling doesn't make it halal or haram. If some Muslims don't pray fajr, that doesn't mean fajr isn't obligatory. If some Muslimahs dont wear hijab, that doesn't stop making of obligatory. If some Muslim males have non-Muslim girlfriends, that doesn't make it halal.

My point is that the cultural constructs of a society, while important in determining a legal judgment, are not the sole consideration.

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by m_ali_qazi

everyone needs to chill and stop hating on each others freedoms and way of life

Tell jinnzaman to stop labeling everything as eurocentric, and we'll talk.

I must assume, however, that everyone in this discussion says salams to men and women equally. It would be pretty hypocritical to say you don't believe in talking to the opposite gender, when you're doing it right here on Islamica.