[MuslimZ]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

When has orthodox ever been linked with terrorism?

I don't think it has explicitly. But orthodox is starting to be framed by some as the antithesis to "moderate" and "progressive" muslims. Because obviously it's unorthodox to walk the middle path.

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

When has orthodox ever been linked with terrorism?

Orthodox muslims being demeaned in the media and such. For example: Tableeghi's aren't "fundamentalists", they are orthodox, but there have been attempts to label them as fundamentalists/extremists, tie them to terrorism and such. Some people use the the terms orthodox, fundamendalist, and extremist, interchangeably to mean something bad. That's what I meant.

This isn't the kind of thing where I can provide you with conclusive proof either, so don't ask. Abu Hind got it, I'm sure other people understood what I was refering to. I'm sure you also know what I'm talking about.

[Deel]

props to abu hind for the thread.

Originally Posted by bluey

If someone is orthodox in practice when it comes to Islam... isn't that exactly what they're supposed to be doing?

I.E- Following the fudamentals?

what she said.
oh and, preach it Chotoo

[LEGALEAGLE]

A Wahhabi is whatever the Imperial party of the day defines as a wahhabi... List of Revolutionaries

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by Abu_Hind

I see. Okay. So who would you label as a Wahhabi, regardless of how accurate or inaccurate you may be in your assessment?

Why does it matter who I would call as a Wahhabi? I never brought myself into the equation.
I'm above these kind of biases.

Again, like I said, I was only trying to explain to you that the word has been co-opted. It's become pretty much synonymous with "extreme". And what extreme means is a different discussion, though I think people use that term lightly too, for people who wear niqabs and have long beards. Oftentimes both "extremists" and "Wahhabi" are words associated with terrorists: Al-Qaida, for example. I've heard it being called a Wahhabi organization in media outlets. So yeah...only thing I can use to support this at the moment is anecdotal evidence. But you've obviously noticed that people misuse the word.

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Orthodox muslims being demeaned in the media and such. For example: Tableeghi's aren't "fundamentalists", they are orthodox, but there have been attempts to label them as fundamentalists/extremists, tie them to terrorism and such. Some people use the the terms orthodox, fundamendalist, and extremist, interchangeably to mean something bad. That's what I meant.

This isn't the kind of thing where I can provide you with conclusive proof either, so don't ask. Abu Hind got it, I'm sure other people understood what I was refering to. I'm sure you also know what I'm talking about.

You could perhaps do a study of how pervasive the idea is, by recording instances where you hear/read this in the media.

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by Timbit

You could perhaps do a study of how pervasive the idea is, by recording instances where you hear/read this in the media.

Why should I do it? Jinnzaman is the one who always wants proof about things. Let him do his own study. I have better things to do with my time.

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Why should I do it? Jinnzaman is the one who always wants proof about things. Let him do his own study. I have better things to do with my time.

Not you. You're in chemistry or something, no?
I use the generic you a lot. Why does everybody always think I mean them?

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Orthodox muslims being demeaned in the media and such. For example: Tableeghi's aren't "fundamentalists", they are orthodox, but there have been attempts to label them as fundamentalists/extremists, tie them to terrorism and such. Some people use the the terms orthodox, fundamendalist, and extremist, interchangeably to mean something bad. That's what I meant.

This isn't the kind of thing where I can provide you with conclusive proof either, so don't ask. Abu Hind got it, I'm sure other people understood what I was refering to. I'm sure you also know what I'm talking about.

When has Tableeghi Jamaat or any Ashari Sufis or Deobandis have ever been linked to terrorism? Can you give a few examples of this?

I'm not aware of anyone who is an Orthodox Sunni being linked to terrorism.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Why should I do it? Jinnzaman is the one who always wants proof about things. Let him do his own study. I have better things to do with my time.

Well, if you make an assertion, you should be able to substantiate with some form of evidence, otherwise its mere speculation.

[MuslimZ]

Everyone read The Great Theft whether you like the author or not.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by MuslimZ

Everyone read The Great Theft whether you like the author or not.

I've already read it.

I've read almost all of Fadl's works. His books are crap.

His dissertations and journals, on the other hand, are awesome.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by MuslimZ

I don't think it has explicitly. But orthodox is starting to be framed by some as the antithesis to "moderate" and "progressive" muslims. Because obviously it's unorthodox to walk the middle path.

I agree with your assessment. I was just curious if there were any links to orthodoxy in the mainstream media, other than by the Frontpage Fairy slamophobes (Spencer, Malkin, et al)

[MuslimZ]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

I've already read it.

I've read almost all of Fadl's works. His books are crap.

His dissertations and journals, on the other hand, are awesome.

Have you read Place of Tolerance in Islam? The diversity of essayists in that collection is excellent.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by MuslimZ

Have you read Place of Tolerance in Islam? The diversity of essayists in that collection is excellent.

Yes. I've also read his arguments in the Islam and Democracy collection.

Again, his arguments are blah. If you want to see him making real good arguments, check out his dissertations and journals. (hit me up on AIM if you want me to send them to you)

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

When has Tableeghi Jamaat or any Ashari Sufis or Deobandis have ever been linked to terrorism? Can you give a few examples of this?

I'm not aware of anyone who is an Orthodox Sunni being linked to terrorism.

Taliban = Deobandi. They are linked with terrorism all the time. That's the most obvious example.

You don't read newspapers?

Tablighi Jamaat: Jihad's Stealthy Legions - Middle East Quarterly

MPACUK - Tablighi Jamaat Behind New Barcelona Attack?

Islamist Networks: The Case of Tablighi Jamaat by Nicholas Howenstein: USIPeace Briefing: U.S. Institute of Peace

They are trying to link it with terrorism right there. That's really all you have to do these days, infer a link.

There are some things which I really expect to be such common knowledge that the idea of having a list of links to "prove it" seems absurd to me.