[ChotooMotoo]

I used to really like going to jummah and connecting with Muslims in my community. Without jummah I can literally go months without saying salam to another Muslim sister. In my old community, I got on splendidly. When I moved to this new town, I started having problems. See, I pray sitting down due to problems with my knees. I sit down for the whole thing, since it hurts me to stand up, and sit down every time I need to make sejda and get up again. When I first got here, people looked at me really strange, and obviously didn't understand. Now that they have gotten a little used to it, another problem comes.

One of the older ladies in the community recently developed knee problems of her own. Now she sits, but only to make sejda. Today in jummah she kind of yelled at the sisters about the way they made their rows. Really she was yelling at me.

Since I sit in a chair, she says I should wait until the line is formed, and then line my sitting feet up with their feet. My problem with this is that this means that I am not shoulder to shoulder with them. I feel like I'm in a different row entirely. It works fine for her, because she stands. She also insists that I be at the end of the line so as not to confuse people.

I feel like not even going to jummah, or when I go just sitting in the back the whole time with my own row if this is how she's going to make it.

Any advice?

[IbnMardhiyah]

She's making much ado about nothing.

Ask other sisters confidentially if they can pipe up on your behalf. In any case, don't let it discourage you from being in the row you want. I don't want you to get confrontational, so if she doesn't say anything to you directly, just ignore it. When she does say something to you, just be assertive and say there's nothing wrong with the position of your chair.

[iceonfire]

does she look something like this:




= D

[msmoorad]

salaams to all
i have spent over a year in USA from NY to Miami to Dallas/Houston- so i know what goes on in musjids there.

that said- our Hanafi, deobandi ulama say that when performing salaah in jamaah- whether sitting or standing, you should watch the heels- so if u are on a chair, ensure that the back legs of your chair are in line with the saff.
think carefully- all those that watch the toes in order to straighten the saffs.
we all have different body and foot sizes- if you use the toes as a guide-then u gonna have a hard time straightening the saffs.- try it
then use the heels- ensuring all the heels are in a line. Insha allah u will see what a difference it makes.

jazakallah

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by msmoorad

think carefully- all those that watch the toes in order to straighten the saffs.
we all have different body and foot sizes- if you use the toes as a guide-then u gonna have a hard time straightening the saffs.- try it
then use the heels- ensuring all the heels are in a line. Insha allah u will see what a difference it makes.

jazakallah

Uh, no.

Those who use the toes to straighten the line stand right behind the line, and those that use their heels stand in front. I've prayed in masaajid that use both methods, and using toes is actually better for determining a straight line, because often people using their heels cant even tell unless they bend over backwards and look, or have the person next to them tell whether they're straight or not.

[ChotooMotoo]

All the Masjids I've been to (which isn't many) used the shoulders, since if your shoulers are in line, the row is straight.

[Salika]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

Uh, no.

Those who use the toes to straighten the line stand right behind the line, and those that use their heels stand in front. I've prayed in masaajid that use both methods, and using toes is actually better for determining a straight line, because often people using their heels cant even tell unless they bend over backwards and look, or have the person next to them tell whether they're straight or not.

No, in fiqh books, it says heels. It makes more sense because if you use toes, everyone's foot length is different but with heels, the start point is always the same. It's not hard, you don't have to bend backwards, just put your heels on the line.

I don't know what the hukm is when you sit in the chair because your position is changing. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can share. Or I can look it up. But she should not be yelling at you like that.

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by Salika

No, in fiqh books, it says heels. It makes more sense because if you use toes, everyone's foot length is different but with heels, the start point is always the same. It's not hard, you don't have to bend backwards, just put your heels on the line.

I was speaking from practical reality, which is different from theory.

Many people in the arab world use their toes to line up, as as for whether or not its "hard" to line up with your heels ... just ask your brother or husband how often the lines are not so straight after all despite people using their heels as the determinant.

Most people misjudge where their heels actually are.

[Salika]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

I was speaking from practical reality, which is different from theory.

Many people in the arab world use their toes to line up, as as for whether or not its "hard" to line up with your heels ... just ask your brother or husband how often the lines are not so straight after all despite people using their heels as the determinant.

Most people misjudge where their heels actually are.

I was talking about reality too...

Yes, a lot of people use their toes and the lines are still not totally straight. I see this praying with women too. And whether people misjudge where their heels are is irrelevent. Instead of doing something wrong altogether, fix what you're supposed to be doing.

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by Salika

I don't know what the hukm is when you sit in the chair because your position is changing. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can share. Or I can look it up. But she should not be yelling at you like that.

Just to clarify, my position isn't changing. I'm sitting from the first takbeer, to the final salam. HER position changes, in that she stands as the other ladies stand, and only sits to make sejda. That's what's confusing to me. Of course she would line up with their feet. I'm just not sure where I should line up, since if I line my sitting feet with their standing feet, I feel like I'm not part of the line.

[Salika]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Just to clarify, my position isn't changing. I'm sitting from the first takbeer, to the final salam. HER position changes, in that she stands as the other ladies stand, and only sits to make sejda. That's what's confusing to me. Of course she would line up with their feet. I'm just not sure where I should line up, since if I line my sitting feet with their standing feet, I feel like I'm not part of the line.

Oh my bad. Sorry. Ya, that's weird. I wouldn't let it get to you. There's always someone causing issues. Just ignore her. If you're really bothered by it, ask other women if they're bothered by your position and they'll likely tell you no and that the other lady kinda looks like an odd ball. I can try to look it up if you'd like.

[Deel]

um anyways.
choto, just keep doing your thing. she's an elder who has to be respected, yes, but whatever you believe to be the right way is between you and Allah. try to make sure your chair is lined up with everyone else is though, and that should be good enough. you could also point out that waiting for the lines to form and then lining up your chair/sitting up feet with everyone else's takes up too much room for the person praying behind you. definitely definitely definitely don't let her stop you from going to the masjid. she'll give up eventually once she understands she can't always play judge.

[jinnzaman]

Study Islam Online at SunniPath: The Online Islamic Academy

or any other scholar, inshaAllah.

[Islamic_Women]

At our Masjid, we have this lady that tries to "control". the younger kids. She doesn't like how tall we or our... lets just say she does not like us. That does not stop me from going to the mASJID. Please Do Not let that stop you.
PS: The old lady is soooooooooo not worth it.

[msmoorad]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

I was speaking from practical reality, which is different from theory.

Many people in the arab world use their toes to line up, as as for whether or not its "hard" to line up with your heels ... just ask your brother or husband how often the lines are not so straight after all despite people using their heels as the determinant.

Most people misjudge where their heels actually are.

salaams to all

i dont want to insult- but just because the arabs do it - it does not mean its the way it should be done.
if im not mistake it was hadrath Umar (rad) who used to take a sword and walk through the saffs ensuring they were straight.
i know how it is in most musjids in USA- its very hard to find a straight saff- since they just do the toes thingie.
jazakallah