[Revert]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

Look, the Shias on this forum have this obsession with constantly bashing Sunnism and puffing up Shiasm. They were asserting that "unlike the Sunnis, we don't engage in takfeer." This statement is patently false since there were plenty of Shias who not only did takfeer, but warred on people and imposed jizyah and took Sunnis as slaves. Jaysh called them out on this smear tactic. He didn't mock them or do takfeer, so lets give him credit where its due and not overinflate charges.

So what if they do? Its an internet forum not a meeting of great intellects.

Do you speak for ALL sunnis? No

Do they speak for all Shias? No no are they responsible for the sins of their fathers.

Overhyped puffed up nonsense bro.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by thejellymill

My post had nothing to do with rejecting the content of the original post. However, it seems he posts things simply to get a reaction and cause needless bickering...i.e. arguing for the sake of arguing. Most practicing Muslims know that mocking the sunnah is forbidden, most practicing Muslims know niqab is considered fard by some scholars and it is also a fact that not all Shia are considered deviants or out of the fold of Islam. Why post about these things except to cause cause controversy and idle discussion that leads to arguments? It's called "i have nothing better to do but troll islamica."

I don't think Jaysh's objective is to cause bickering, he's not some desi housewife who likes to see fitnah. Jaysh probably percieves himself to be a defender of the Sunnah and one who combats against bid'a and he seeks to eliminate it wherever he finds it.

And Islamica isn't exactly an representation of orthodoxy by any means.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by Revert

So what if they do? Its an internet forum not a meeting of great intellects. [

Do you speak for ALL sunnis? No

Do they speak for all Shias? No no are they responsible for the sins of their fathers.

Overhyped puffed up nonsense bro.

The obligations of the deen don't stop just because we're on the internet. It is obligatory to love the Prophet (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) and promote the good and forbid the evil. The very least we can do is to promote the proper understanding of aqeedah thats agreed upon. Jaysh isn't bashing any particular sect or group of people. However, when some of those groups decided to take an unpopular view and use it as a smear tactic, then he has the right to respond to them.

You may think its a matter of puffed up hype, but to others, loving the Sunnah is more important than anything else. I think you're attacking him on the improper grounds and if you don't like what he says, then be very specific and indicate what he said was false or inappropriate. Merely because he's engaging in polemics isn't a sufficient grounds. If his argument is correct than its correct.

[thejellymill]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

I don't think Jaysh's objective is to cause bickering, he's not some desi housewife who likes to see fitnah. Jaysh probably percieves himself to be a defender of the Sunnah and one who combats against bid'a and he seeks to eliminate it wherever he finds it.

Well someone should tell him he's not SunnahMan. He is neither a sheikh nor the religious police or some kind of messenger sent to teach and save us all. Frankly, the hateful, bigoted posts and useless threads are getting pretty old.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by thejellymill

Well someone should tell him he's not SunnahMan. He is neither a sheikh nor the religious police or some kind of messenger sent to teach and save us all. Frankly, the hateful, bigoted posts and useless threads are getting pretty old.

You're grossly exaggerating the issue here. Jaysh posted a fatwa from Shaykh Munajjid, who IS a scholar and whose post was NOT hateful or bigoted in anyway. If you don't like the thread, then ignore it or post in the marry a buttmonkey thread. If you have a problem with a particular component of the post, then indicate what it is with specificity. The doctrine being espoused in the original post isn't restricted to Salafis but is accepted by Sunnis and Shias broadly. So what's the beef here? If you don't like takfeer, then your problem isn't with Jaysh, its with Islam and the 'Ulema.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

The obligations of the deen don't stop just because we're on the internet. It is obligatory to love the Prophet (sallahu alayhi wa sallam) and promote the good and forbid the evil. The very least we can do is to promote the proper understanding of aqeedah thats agreed upon. Jaysh isn't bashing any particular sect or group of people. However, when some of those groups decided to take an unpopular view and use it as a smear tactic, then he has the right to respond to them.

You may think its a matter of puffed up hype, but to others, loving the Sunnah is more important than anything else. I think you're attacking him on the improper grounds and if you don't like what he says, then be very specific and indicate what he said was false or inappropriate. Merely because he's engaging in polemics isn't a sufficient grounds. If his argument is correct than its correct.

I won't defend a man who e-yells to get his point across, just as I wouldn'd defend a man who shouts in the masjid to get thier point across. Regardless of what they have to say the delivery ruins it and could possibly take away form an benifit spiritually or intellectualy.

Loving the Sunnah is one thing(Masha'Allah I pray we all do) but using it as a way to justify being rude is not right.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by Revert

I won't defend a man who e-yells to get his point across, just as I wouldn'd defend a man who shouts in the masjid to get thier point across. Regardless of what they have to say the delivery ruins it and could possibly take away form an benifit spiritually or intellectualy.

Loving the Sunnah is one thing(Masha'Allah I pray we all do) but using it as a way to justify being rude is not right.

What about Jaysh's response to the Shia was emotional?

[zeyneddine]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

You're grossly exaggerating the issue here. Jaysh posted a fatwa from Shaykh Munajjid, who IS a scholar and whose post was NOT hateful or bigoted in anyway. If you don't like the thread, then ignore it or post in the marry a buttmonkey thread. If you have a problem with a particular component of the post, then indicate what it is with specificity. The doctrine being espoused in the original post isn't restricted to Salafis but is accepted by Sunnis and Shias broadly. So what's the beef here? If you don't like takfeer, then your problem isn't with Jaysh, its with Islam and the 'Ulema.

I think what you should realize is that not only the non-Muslims/"deviants" are upset at the constant hateful and improper way of communication, but also other members above. That should be telling in itself. Knowledge is not useful if you use to it to turn away those who might benefit from receiving it.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

What about Jaysh's response to the Shia was emotional?

Look at the way he deals with Rahat its the tone of it, sly and sneery as if he's better than us all. Its sickening and to be honest its not really a suprise.

The way Jaysh has dealt with a few posters has ticked me off the rahat thing just brought it to a head.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by Revert

Look at the way he deals with Rahat its the tone of it, sly and sneery as if he's better than us all. Its sickening and to be honest its not really a suprise.

The way Jaysh has dealt with a few posters has ticked me off the rahat thing just brought it to a head.

Jaysh didn't deal with Rahat the way he did because he's Shia, but because he made a bad argument and made an insinuation that denigrated Sunnism so he reacted appropriately.

What exactly did he say that indicated he thought he was better than the rest of us? Which sentence indicated slyness? I'm curious, becuase I didn't get that vibe at all.

[thejellymill]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

You're grossly exaggerating the issue here. Jaysh posted a fatwa from Shaykh Munajjid, who IS a scholar and whose post was NOT hateful or bigoted in anyway. If you don't like the thread, then ignore it or post in the marry a buttmonkey thread. If you have a problem with a particular component of the post, then indicate what it is with specificity. The doctrine being espoused in the original post isn't restricted to Salafis but is accepted by Sunnis and Shias broadly. So what's the beef here? If you don't like takfeer, then your problem isn't with Jaysh, its with Islam and the 'Ulema.

You seem to be implying that I am rejecting some part of the original post. Please stop telling me what I'm trying to say, I know what I'm trying to say but you are missing my point. I agree wholeheartedly with the fact that mocking the sunnah might take one out of the fold of Islam, that is not the problem here.

The problem is jaysh posts these commonly known facts just for kicks because he obviously has nothing else to do (the fact that he's on here almost 24/7 posting a new thread every hour is a good clue). He often responds to those he disagrees with in a disrespectful, sometimes outright rude or even hateful manner and insults other groups. Plus didn't he once declare takfir on shadha or something? Isn't that why he got banned in the first place?

If you look back at my original comment in the thread you would see that the point I am trying to make here is that jaysh never gets banned because he's been here longer and is friends with others who have also been around forever, some of whom are now moderators. However, new people that do the same thing as he does (spew bigoted garbage, make needless threads, reply to others with disrespect and declare people kafirs) get banned in a second.

[thejellymill]

Originally Posted by Revert

Look at the way he deals with Rahat its the tone of it, sly and sneery as if he's better than us all. Its sickening and to be honest its not really a suprise.

The way Jaysh has dealt with a few posters has ticked me off the rahat thing just brought it to a head.

Seems revert and I are getting at the same point here.

Jinnzaman, I'm sure a lot of people get that "vibe" from him. I don't know why nobody bothers to say anything.

[rahat]

You people are ridiculous.

1. A "Nasibi" is someone who hates the Ahlul Bayt. Even the Sunni madhabs declare a Nasibi to be Kafir. If you don't hate the Ahlul Bayt, this does not apply to you.

2. I don't deny for 1 second that Shias declare certain groups to be non-Muslim, its just not a cultural attitude for us to focus on it in the vast majority of conversations. And lets not anyone deny that the overwhelming majority of the members of this forum are Sunni, and in this board - the overwhelming majority of conversations are focused on ensuring that someone is a kafir.

3. Thanks for ignoring the personal insults moderators! You're really doing a ****ty ass job.

-
rahat

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by thejellymill

You seem to be implying that I am rejecting some part of the original post. Please stop telling me what I'm trying to say, I know what I'm trying to say but you are missing my point. I agree wholeheartedly with the fact that mocking the sunnah might take one out of the fold of Islam, that is not the problem here.

I disagree. The facts aren't common knowledge. If they were common knowledge, then people wouldn't have contested the substance of the original post.

The problem is jaysh posts these commonly known facts just for kicks because he obviously has nothing else to do (the fact that he's on here almost 24/7 posting a new thread every hour is a good clue). He often responds to those he disagrees with in a disrespectful, sometimes outright rude or even hateful manner and insults other groups. Plus didn't he once declare takfir on shadha or something? Isn't that why he got banned in the first place?

Everyone on Islamica is a loser. Unless you're doing research for a PhD thesis, then you're wasting just as much time on here as Jaysh is. Posting articles from 'Ulema is probably a better use of time then posting in the FPH thread.

Most of the time Jaysh is respectful, its on certain subjects that he gets riled up and those are things such as bida, shirk, and kufr, which every Muslims hould get riled up about.

In terms of takfir, he called her a heretic, and on certain occasions, she deserves to be called as such as do many people on this forum. Just because the moderators pick sides doesn't mean there aren't heretics on this forum. How you approach them is the issue. I don't agree with Jaysh's methodology, but do you really think that people who have deviant aqeedah shouldn't be confronted and challenged?

If you look back at my original comment in the thread you would see that the point I am trying to make here is that jaysh never gets banned because he's been here longer and is friends with others who have also been around forever, some of whom are now moderators. However, new people that do the same thing as he does (spew bigoted garbage, make needless threads, reply to others with disrespect and declare people kafirs) get banned in a second.

What bigotry does he espouse? Give some clear cut examples.