[zeyneddine]

Please, please stay on topic
I was having a discussion about the above topic, and wanted further clarification. Anyone who has read the Quran and studied it, your insights would be very much appreciated.

Surah Al-Baqarah in its first seven ayahs basically define the parameters for the people for whom the Book was revealed.

1. The mutaqqi, people who have taqwa, fear of god.
2. Those who believe in the Unseen and are steadfast in prayer to Him
3. Those who SPEND what He has provided. <---- I have never seen anyone highlight this, no scholar, no mullah, no one.
4. Those who believe in the prior revelations, Torah, Zaboor, Injil. We never even touch those books, no comparitive study, etc. Yes, those books have been lost or have been changed, but that doesnt mean one cannot find God's message in them. Are we to completely discard them or actually read the messages therein?
5. Those who believe in the Hereafter.

If we do not fulfil the above parameters, are we lost? As ayah 5 says:
002.005
YUSUFALI: They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.
PICKTHAL: These depend on guidance from their Lord. These are the successful.
SHAKIR: These are on a right course from their Lord and these it is that shall be successful.

Lets please have a civil discussion here. What do the above verses mean to you?

[socceroni67]

Yes!

[poga]

no
for jinn too

[zeyneddine]

should have known, this community is not one to indulge in intellectual discourse

[Revert]

Great thread Z, I think people see you as a troll and therefore incapable of having a serious disscussion.

But if your willing to be cool i'm up for this insha'Allah.

[zeyneddine]

Originally Posted by Revert

Great thread Z, I think people see you as a troll and therefore incapable of having a serious disscussion.

But if your willing to be cool i'm up for this insha'Allah.

HE'S a troll. I'm not.
So bro, what do you think about the original post?

[ChotooMotoo]

I believe it is meant for all mankind.

Just one comment about the books of previous messengers. It's true that these books are hardly studied. There are some ignorant people would even go so far as to disrespect and destroy the Bible, Torah etc. While it is well known that the words were changed over centuries, we don't know what was changed, and was is intact. Yes, you can still find a lot of truth in the Bible, and the Torah, which is why people who truly follow those have kind of a special status in Islam. As Muslims, we don't really NEED to study those books though, becuase the truths contained in those books are contained unadulterated in the Quran. Also, studying someone elses religious books when you don't understand Islam very well yourself can lead to a lot of confustion, and doubts about your faith.

[zeyneddine]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

I believe it is meant for all mankind.

I cannot disagree... maybe I worded it wrong. The ayahs refer to those who *would receive guidance* from the book.

Just one comment about the books of previous messengers. It's true that these books are hardly studied. There are some ignorant people would even go so far as to disrespect and destroy the Bible, Torah etc. While it is well known that the words were changed over centuries, we don't know what was changed, and was is intact. Yes, you can still find a lot of truth in the Bible, and the Torah, which is why people who truly follow those have kind of a special status in Islam. As Muslims, we don't really NEED to study those books though, becuase the truths contained in those books are contained unadulterated in the Quran. Also, studying someone elses religious books when you don't understand Islam very well yourself can lead to a lot of confustion, and doubts about your faith.

Do the words "And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts)" come to mean that we must believe in the *existence* of the books, or believe *in the message/s* contained therein? I lean towards the latter, because if you observe the context, we are not to just belief in the existence of Quran, but also believe in the message in the Quran.

Ofcourse, the above has to be predicated by understanding the Quran to a good level of comfort.

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by zeyneddine

I cannot disagree... maybe I worded it wrong. The ayahs refer to those who *would receive guidance* from the book.

Who recieve guidance is something else entirely. There are many people who say they are Muslims, yet don't recieve guidance. I wish that all people would recieve that guidance.

Do the words "And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts)" come to mean that we must believe in the *existence* of the books, or believe *in the message* contained therein?

Ofcourse, the above has to be predicated by understanding our own faith to a good level of comfort.

The existance of the books is clear, so I think that we have to believe that the book was once of divine origen (the message). As such, we have to give some respect to the books of other religions. I dunno, but I've always felt that Islam teaches quite a bit of religious tolerance compared to the other monotheistic religions.

As for believing the messages contained in other books, like I said, what remains of the divine messages contained in those books are contained in the Quran, so we don't really have to study them.

[zeyneddine]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Who recieve guidance is something else entirely. There are many people who say they are Muslims, yet don't recieve guidance. I wish that all people would recieve that guidance.

very true. So Quran is a book of guidance, but one cannot receive guidance unless he/she (Muslims or not) fulfils the parameters outlined in the ayahs, right?

The existance of the books is clear, so I think that we have to believe that the book was once of divine origen (the message). As such, we have to give some respect to the books of other religions. I dunno, but I've always felt that Islam teaches quite a bit of religious tolerance compared to the other monotheistic religions.

As for believing the messages contained in other books, like I said, what remains of the divine messages contained in those books are contained in the Quran, so we don't really have to study them.

could you elaborate the above in light of the ayah from the Quran?

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by zeyneddine

could you elaborate the above in light of the ayah from the Quran?

I can't think of a specific ayah. More like all of the ayah combined which talk about there being good true Christians, and good true Jews, and ayahs about how they changed the words of their books after it was sent, and all the ayas about the Quran being sent to correct errors, being sent for all mankind etc. Surah's 18 (Kaaf) and 19 (Myriam) kind of make this idea clear to me, I dunno about you.

[dreamdeferred]

Masha'Allah....great thread idea!

I actually agree with you zeyneddine........achieving a basic literacy in the Old and New Testaments can be really helpful when studying the Quran. ChootooMotoo was right though, we need to be grounded in our Islam before taking on such extracurricular studies.

Is it absolutely necessary to undertake this study in order to be "guided", no.....everything we need in terms of guidance has been communicated to us by the Seal of Prophets Mohamed(saws) by way of the Quran and Sunnah.

It sure is helpful to have a solid knowledge of biblical history though.

[zeyneddine]

Originally Posted by dreamdeferred

Masha'Allah....great thread idea!

I actually agree with you zeyneddine........achieving a basic literacy in the Old and New Testaments can be really helpful when studying the Quran. ChootooMotoo was right though, we need to be grounded in our Islam before taking on such extracurricular studies.

Is it absolutely necessary to undertake this study in order to be "guided", no.....everything we need in terms of guidance has been communicated to us by the Seal of Prophets Mohamed(saws) by way of the Quran and Sunnah.

It sure is helpful to have a solid knowledge of biblical history though.

Also brother dreamdeferred, what about the other clauses? One is definitely believing in the other Revelations... it is still under debate whether the belief is just in the *existence* of the Revelations or the message in them.

The others include spending what He has provided you with. How many of us do that? What does that entail? Is this simply zakat? And why is that a condition for guidance?

[Jaysh]

"This is no less than a Message to (all) the Worlds." (The Noble Quran, 38:87)


"It is no less than a message for all creatures." (The Noble Quran, 12:104)

"This is no less than a message for the nations." (The Noble Quran, 6:90)

"Verily this is no less than a Message to (all) the Worlds." (The Noble Quran, 81:27)

[Jaysh]

Originally Posted by zeyneddine

3. Those who SPEND what He has provided. <---- I have never seen anyone highlight this, no scholar, no mullah, no one.

This is a Rambo like statement. You probably don't spend enough time with religious scholars and mullahs to know that they *always* harp on the importance to give alms. It's annoying when you and Rambo make such sweeping (and stupid) generalizations.