[Kona_Silat]

YouTube - Disproving Islam with Sperm

[sixpakistan]

Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun on Semen Production in the Noble Quran.

[bravotwozero]

The person in the video is an ignoramus. I'm also not surprised that you would post this kind of garbage.

[Rida]

YouTube - Re: Disproving Islam with Sperm
Read the comments

[zakk]

why would you post that as a thumb up?

[Khairan]

Originally Posted by Kona_Silat

YouTube - Disproving Islam with Sperm

Blah.

This is an old one and it's been discussed many times before. The verse is actually accurate, and it's ironic that people who don't know biology criticize the Qur'an for being "wrong" when if fact not only do they not understand the verse but they also don't know the facts they're trying to portray.

Here are the verses in question, as translated by Pickthal:

86.5: So let man consider from what he is created.

86.6: He is created from a gushing fluid

86.7: That issued from between the loins and ribs.


loins: the part or parts of the human body or of a quadruped animal on either side of the spinal column, between the false ribs and hipbone.


So, anatomically the Qur'an is NOT in fact describing the chest, it is describing the abdomen. Interestingly, the translations that say "between the ribs and the backbone" or "between the spine and the ribs" FIT the english definition of the word "loins," which was used directly by the translator above. Any English speaker who hears the word loins knows that the word describes the pelvis or the abdomen, but apparently some people don't know the definition well enough to understand that the Qur'an is describing the loins, not the chest. Interesting. Our youtuber has so far demonstrated that he doesn't even understand the verses he's criticizing, not to mention that he has a less than complete knowledge of the english he's using to engage in what he's trying to pass off as "analysis" of the verses.

Second, the description provided is in fact correct. The verses here are NOT actually describing sperm, but seminal fluid. A person familiar with anatomy (which this youtuber obviously isn't) would know that seminal fluid is NOT produced in the testicles but in the prostate. Where is the prostate located? In the loins.

Now, what we've learned is the following: the people who unthinkingly criticize this verse are actually demonstrating the opposite of what they are trying to. A layman in the age of internet and advanced information media STILL does not understand basic reproductive anatomy and physiology, and yet here we have a document 1400 years old produced (supposedly) by an illiterate desert trader with no medical or biological background which describes this anatomy and physiology quite accurately.

Allahu Akbar!

[dreamdeferred]

Booooooooooooooring.

[Jaysh]

Khairan, I think the verse is referring to the seminal vesicles. What do you think?

Take a look at this diagram:

http://www.islamicaweb.com/forums/152177-post6.html

EDIT: I guess it could be referring to both the prostate and seminal vesicles.

[Variable]

I don't want to debate this - because I don't want to 'disprove Islam with sperm'...or disprove Islam at all. I don't think that's possible anyway.

But... I'm missing how the prostate is between the spine and the ribs.

[Jaysh]

Originally Posted by Variable

I don't want to debate this - because I don't want to 'disprove Islam with sperm'...or disprove Islam at all. I don't think that's possible anyway.

But... I'm missing how the prostate is between the spine and the ribs.

The seminal vesicle is between the backbone and ribs. Look:

[Variable]

there are no ribs on that diagram. I'm trying to feel on myself and I don't think my ribs are way down there.

[Khairan]

Originally Posted by Variable

I don't want to debate this - because I don't want to 'disprove Islam with sperm'...or disprove Islam at all. I don't think that's possible anyway.

But... I'm missing how the prostate is between the spine and the ribs.

The issue is that when people read the "between the spine and the ribs" they think it is referring to the thoracic cavity. I believe the issue becomes much clearer if you use "loins" as a translation instead.

Further, if you look at the discussion of the Arabic in sixpak's link, the words used in this verse are "sulb" (lower back, loins) and "taraib" (ribs), so the location is described as being between the lower back and the ribs, or in the loins, etc.

It's a complicated anatomical description and many of the translations in English can be confusing, which is why it is helpful to see how multiple translators have attempted the passage and then see what the Arabic is actually saying. I myself was confused by what this verse was trying to say until I realized that it was referring to the loins.

Originally Posted by Jaysh

Khairan, I think the verse is referring to the seminal vesicles. What do you think?

Take a look at this diagram:

http://www.islamicaweb.com/forums/152177-post6.html

EDIT: I guess it could be referring to both the prostate and seminal vesicles.

Yeah, certainly it is also talking about the seminal vesicles. The key point here is that the male fluid produced during procreation is NOT made in the testicles -- a site of sperm production -- as is contended by critics of these verses.

Originally Posted by Variable

there are no ribs on that diagram. I'm trying to feel on myself and I don't think my ribs are way down there.

The diagram is depicting the lumbosacral spine, and you are right -- your ribs end higher up, at the thoracic spine.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Khairan

The issue is that when people read the "between the spine and the ribs" they think it is referring to the thoracic cavity. I believe the issue becomes much clearer if you use "loins" as a translation instead.


Yeah, certainly it is also talking about the seminal vesicles. The key point here is that the male fluid produced during procreation is NOT made in the testicles -- a site of sperm production -- as is contended by critics of these verses.


The diagram is depicting the lunbosacral spine, and you are right -- your ribs end higher up, at the thoracic spine.

Yeh but it says 'between the loins and the ribs'... so if...

blah, never mind... I don't want to talk about sperm on Islamica anymore.

[Khairan]

Originally Posted by Variable

Yeh but it says 'between the loins and the ribs'... so if...

blah, never mind... I don't want to talk about sperm on Islamica anymore.

I think the problem is that the anatomy of the pelvis is complicated and it is not easy to describe in lay terms. More accurate would be to say that seminal fluid is produced by organs located along the midline, anterior to the lumbosacral spine, inferior to the bladder, and deep to the pubis, but I hope none of us is expecting Grey's Anatomy when we open the Qur'an.

[poga]

Awaluddin Marrifath Ullah Say's
Single path and three way's
Cubical X and triangular Y
Geographical Janani And geometrical Jamai
Awaluddin Marrifath Ullah Say's
To divide the three path in three way's
One borrowed another and became two
And two multiplied to four to repay its indebted due
So three may carry on
By Y minus daughter and X and Y son

from SWEETSWORDS 49 [ One Two Three ]