[Jaysh]

I know this has been answered a lot before, but I found this response to the best response I've seen so far:

http://islamtoday.com/show_detail_se...main_cat_id=18

Question: Muslims say that Allah is capable of anything (huwa 'ala kulli shay’in qadeer). Therefore, is Allah, for instance, capable of creating a heavy stone that He will not be able to lift? Knowing that if Allah is capable of creating such a stone, that would make Him incapable of doing one thing (lifting this stone). On the other hand, if He is incapable of creating that kind of stone, that will contradict the Koran where it says He is capable of anything. I don't know how to answer this argument. Your help is needed.

Answered by the Fatwa Department Research Committee - chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî

This argument is a classic example of sophistry. It is a nonsense argument that merely sounds like it make sense. This type of argument occurs when the sentences work grammatically but have no intelligible meaning, since the meaning conveyed by the sentences is self-contradictory. It is an old philosopher’s trick. The argument looks sensible on the surface, but contains a logical fallacy.


When we talk about lifting a stone, we are merely referring to moving it form one point in space to another. Of course, we cannot doubt that Allah has the power to cause a stone to be in any point in space that He wishes.

We need to understand what the argument is really saying. When someone proposes that “He cannot lift it”, he is essentially proposing that He is incapable of something – in this case of having the stone move to a different point in space. The argument is really only proposing His being capable of being incapable!


Therefore, by removing the words “stone” and “lift” from the argument, we get to the essence of the argument, which we can express as follows:

Muslims say that Allah is capable of all things.

Therefore, is Allah capable of being incapable?

If he is capable of being incapable, then he is incapable of something.

If he is incapable of being incapable, then he is incapable of something.

You see, once we remove the words “lifting a stone” form the argument and get down to its bare bones, it becomes clear to us just what a silly, nonsensical argument it really is.

[Budmano786]

I agree that its silly, but don't quite understand where the logical fallacy is?

[wheelworks]

Originally Posted by Jaysh

I know this has been answered a lot before, but I found this response to the best response I've seen so far:

http://islamtoday.com/show_detail_se...main_cat_id=18

Question: Muslims say that Allah is capable of anything (huwa 'ala kulli shay’in qadeer). Therefore, is Allah, for instance, capable of creating a heavy stone that He will not be able to lift? Knowing that if Allah is capable of creating such a stone, that would make Him incapable of doing one thing (lifting this stone). On the other hand, if He is incapable of creating that kind of stone, that will contradict the Koran where it says He is capable of anything. I don't know how to answer this argument. Your help is needed.

Answered by the Fatwa Department Research Committee - chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî

This argument is a classic example of sophistry. It is a nonsense argument that merely sounds like it make sense. This type of argument occurs when the sentences work grammatically but have no intelligible meaning, since the meaning conveyed by the sentences is self-contradictory. It is an old philosopher’s trick. The argument looks sensible on the surface, but contains a logical fallacy.


When we talk about lifting a stone, we are merely referring to moving it form one point in space to another. Of course, we cannot doubt that Allah has the power to cause a stone to be in any point in space that He wishes.

We need to understand what the argument is really saying. When someone proposes that “He cannot lift it”, he is essentially proposing that He is incapable of something – in this case of having the stone move to a different point in space. The argument is really only proposing His being capable of being incapable!


Therefore, by removing the words “stone” and “lift” from the argument, we get to the essence of the argument, which we can express as follows:

Muslims say that Allah is capable of all things.

Therefore, is Allah capable of being incapable?

If he is capable of being incapable, then he is incapable of something.

If he is incapable of being incapable, then he is incapable of something.

You see, once we remove the words “lifting a stone” form the argument and get down to its bare bones, it becomes clear to us just what a silly, nonsensical argument it really is.

Not to mention Allah created the concept of weight, which further makes the idea of him making a stone too heavy, nonsense.

[fiahmad]

Flanders: Homer, it me, Ned.
Homer: Oh right, the God dude. Hey, I got a question for you. (pulls out a piece of paper) "Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?"
Flanders: Well sir, of course, he could, but then again... wow, as melon-scratchers go that's a honey-doodle.
Homer: Now you know what I've been going through.


.

[Abdul_Karim]

The question presupposes either an anthropomorphic or zoomorphic god.

Hence, the question is wrong.

[YOUSUFofSD]

Thanks Jaysh, never read this before.

[TrentReznor858]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/55/13...g?v=1146470739

(that is supposed to be someone thinking in circles, not sure if that is clear)

[Variable]

This is pretty dumb. I'm not even Muslim and it makes sense to me. If someone tried to spring this 'logic' on me, I'd walk away. They'd probably think they'd won, and I wouldn't care if they did or not.

[Musashi]

Asallamu 'alaikum wa rahmatulLahi wa barakatuh

I've seen this argument seriously used by atheists. A lot.

It never made sense to me, but I had never been able to reply coherently anyway. Allah created weight anyway, so it shouldn't apply to him. The heck is this stuff...

[AM415]

I always believed these types of arguments stem from the fact that people see Jesus as god. Therefore, they picture god as a human and someone with limits.

[shsh]

this is exactly why we are supposed to question things but not go as far as this so that our imaan is affected. in the Quran it is clearly stated that we are not supposed to think about what Allah looks like because thats what caused people to create idols and stuff. so yeah. people need to realize when they have gone too far.

[Jetmir]

Christians always say "God can do anything", and "he can be god and man at the same time, because he can do anything" so atheists ask them "if God can do anything then can he create a stone so big, that its too heavy for him to lift", and the christian is stuck.

but we have no problem with this. God can do anything which is befitting of Him.

YouTube - Can God Become A Man? Can God Have A Son?

[poga]

Originally Posted by Jaysh

I know this has been answered a lot before, but I found this response to the best response I've seen so far:

http://islamtoday.com/show_detail_se...main_cat_id=18

Question: Muslims say that Allah is capable of anything (huwa 'ala kulli shay’in qadeer). Therefore, is Allah, for instance, capable of creating a heavy stone that He will not be able to lift? Knowing that if Allah is capable of creating such a stone, that would make Him incapable of doing one thing (lifting this stone). On the other hand, if He is incapable of creating that kind of stone, that will contradict the Koran where it says He is capable of anything. I don't know how to answer this argument. Your help is needed.

Answered by the Fatwa Department Research Committee - chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî

This argument is a classic example of sophistry. It is a nonsense argument that merely sounds like it make sense. This type of argument occurs when the sentences work grammatically but have no intelligible meaning, since the meaning conveyed by the sentences is self-contradictory. It is an old philosopher’s trick. The argument looks sensible on the surface, but contains a logical fallacy.

When we talk about lifting a stone, we are merely referring to moving it form one point in space to another. Of course, we cannot doubt that Allah has the power to cause a stone to be in any point in space that He wishes.

We need to understand what the argument is really saying. When someone proposes that “He cannot lift it”, he is essentially proposing that He is incapable of something – in this case of having the stone move to a different point in space. The argument is really only proposing His being capable of being incapable!

Therefore, by removing the words “stone” and “lift” from the argument, we get to the essence of the argument, which we can express as follows:

Muslims say that Allah is capable of all things.

Therefore, is Allah capable of being incapable?

If he is capable of being incapable, then he is incapable of something.

If he is incapable of being incapable, then he is incapable of something.

You see, once we remove the words “lifting a stone” form the argument and get down to its bare bones, it becomes clear to us just what a silly, nonsensical argument it really is.

.................................................. ............................


Mr Barzakh Fitrath Ullah : First the was the GOD
Then came the WORD
And WORD was Ninad e MUHAMMAD
Sallel La Hu Alahi Wa Sallim
First there was the GOD
Then came the WORD
And the Hothios became he and the Tonthios became him
And evolution was explained as the biological alteration
And from the hidden WORD the SANSAR came into existence as the visual vibration
And thing that evolved from the cosmic pool
It altered its situation from intelligent pool to shore of fool
And became the heavenly tablet through the tongue of the earthen RASUL
Therefore when those Hindu Say's because GOD can do anything
So he comes in the form of human being
Because GOD is so holy and pure
He doesn't know the shortcoming of his polluted KUFFAR
So to teach the humanity he takes the human form
He takes the form to teach the humanity about the karam and dharam
Now some Muslim Say's on the face value this is very logical explanation
Then they say what ALLAH all mighty cannot do with theirs nit wit narration
The Hindu question is stupidity number one with double ignorance
Because it is two part question what defiles pure intelligence
They agree ALLAH can do anything therefore in order for him to do anything he must be all knowing
Therefore when this Hindu Say's he became human being because he doesn't know theirs short coming
Here in theirs second part of the question they say there is something ALLAH doesn't know
And the KAFFIR Say's can ALLAH create a stone what is too heavy for him to throw
Yes ALLAH can do even that
Because ALLAH full fills every needy occasions every when who where and what
Even this question is dual idiot
Therefore to answer one should use the knowledge of the SHARIATH and MARIFATH
To full fill needs of his occasion to see ALLAH built what ALLAH cannot lift
ALLAH built the unliftable metaphorical gem the hypothetical gift
Therefore ALLAH full fills his one condition to see ALLAH make
Full filler of all needs for his own needless sake
Once the first condition now only then can come the second part
Yes now ALLAH can lift the unliftable to full fill the KAFFIR heart
Because ALLAH full fills every condition every needs every state
Therefore Punishment of ALLAH may seems away and far but ALLAH'S punishment is never too late

from SWEETSWORDS 15 [ Sure ]

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by Jaysh

I know this has been answered a lot before, but I found this response to the best response I've seen so far:

http://islamtoday.com/show_detail_se...main_cat_id=18

Question: Muslims say that Allah is capable of anything (huwa 'ala kulli shay’in qadeer). Therefore, is Allah, for instance, capable of creating a heavy stone that He will not be able to lift? Knowing that if Allah is capable of creating such a stone, that would make Him incapable of doing one thing (lifting this stone). On the other hand, if He is incapable of creating that kind of stone, that will contradict the Koran where it says He is capable of anything. I don't know how to answer this argument. Your help is needed.

Answered by the Fatwa Department Research Committee - chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî

This argument is a classic example of sophistry. It is a nonsense argument that merely sounds like it make sense. This type of argument occurs when the sentences work grammatically but have no intelligible meaning, since the meaning conveyed by the sentences is self-contradictory. It is an old philosopher’s trick. The argument looks sensible on the surface, but contains a logical fallacy.


When we talk about lifting a stone, we are merely referring to moving it form one point in space to another. Of course, we cannot doubt that Allah has the power to cause a stone to be in any point in space that He wishes.

We need to understand what the argument is really saying. When someone proposes that “He cannot lift it”, he is essentially proposing that He is incapable of something – in this case of having the stone move to a different point in space. The argument is really only proposing His being capable of being incapable!


Therefore, by removing the words “stone” and “lift” from the argument, we get to the essence of the argument, which we can express as follows:

Muslims say that Allah is capable of all things.

Therefore, is Allah capable of being incapable?

If he is capable of being incapable, then he is incapable of something.

If he is incapable of being incapable, then he is incapable of something.

You see, once we remove the words “lifting a stone” form the argument and get down to its bare bones, it becomes clear to us just what a silly, nonsensical argument it really is.

And one way to respond to such nonsensical sophistry, is with nonsensical sophistry:

Q: Is God capable of being incapable?

A: God is capable of being incapable, while still being capable.

Response: That doesn't make any sense.

Counter-response: Neither does the question.