[roberto]

From Times OnlineJune 16, 2008

Islam is stuck in the Middle Ages, says leading interfaith expert
Islam's problems with the modern world are because it has never undergone "a serious religious reformation" claims German theologianRuth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent
Islam is stuck in its own version of the “Middle Ages” which is contributing to a global crisis, one of the leading experts on Islam, Judaism and Christianity argues today.

Professor Hans Kung, a leading Roman Catholic and theologian from Germany, warns in a lecture of a “deadly threat” to all humankind unless new efforts are made to build bridges with Islam. He says in London that Islam has “special problems” with modernity because, unike Christianity and Judaism, it has never undergone a “serious religious reformation”. He questions whether Islam is even capable of adapting to a post-modern world in the way that Christianity and Judaism have done. But he also outlines why he is hopeful that the present problems around radicalisation within Islam can be resolved, and how the other two Abrahamic faiths are subject to some of the same problems on their extremist edges. Violence has been practicised in the sign of the crescent, but also in the sign of the cross, he warns. In his lecture, seen by The Times, Professor Kung says: “The options have become clear: either rivalry of the religions, clash of civilizations, war of the nations - or dialogue of civilizations and peace between the nations as a presupposition for peace between the nations.

“In the face of the deadly threat to all humankind, instead of building new dams of hatred, revenge and enmity, we should tear down the walls of prejudice stone by stone and thus build bridges of dialogue, bridges particularly towards Islam.” Professor Kung, author of Islam: Past, Present and Future, published last year and one of the most authoritative works on the subject, is speaking on “Challenges to Islam, Christianity and Judaism” in a lecture organised by the Royal Fine Art Commission Trust and Sky Arts. It will be broadcast on Sky Arts later this month. He describes how liberal Jews, Christians and Muslims often get on better with each other than they do with fellow Jews, Christians and Muslims from the traditionalist wings of those religions. A Roman Catholic “imprisoned in the Middle Ages” will find himself closer to the “medieval element” of Islam and Judaism than with liberal Catholic believers. Professor Kung says that one of the main causes of conflicts between religions is the persistence of out-dated ways of thinking. Islam and Christianity regard the actual Middle Ages as the “great time” for their religions. But modernity has forced all three religions of the book onto the “defensive”, and they all face challenges over how they react to their own “Middle Ages”. He argues today that Christianity and Judaism have moved on, but not Islam. “It remains an open question if the ecumenical paradigm of post-modernity will develop also in Islam.”

Professor Kung, who aged 80 is a contemporary of the Pope and worked with him as a theological adviser to the Second Vatican Council in the early 1960’s, was influential at the council in persuading the Roman Catholic Church to adopt a more positive attitude to Judaism and religious freedom. He has also spoken out constantly in favour of the official recognition of the State of Israel by the Vatican and for a two-state-solution for Israelis and Palestinians.

Professor Kung, whose own liberal views cost him his official Catholic teaching licence in the last century, says that the essence of all three religions must be preserved, but those who want peace and reconciliation will not be able to avoid criticism. They must engage in self-criticism to enable their faiths to adapt to modernity. Referring to Christianity, for example, he says: “Jesus Christ as a basic model is a constant, but the law of celibacy is a variable.” He argues: “After the Reformation Christianity had to undergo another paradigm shift, that of the Enlightenment. Judaism after the French Revolution and Napoleon experienced the Enlightenment first, and as a consequence, at least in Reform Judaism, it experienced also a religious reformation. Islam, however, has not undergone a serious religious reformation and so to the present day has quite special problems also with modernity and its core components, freedom of conscience and religion, human rights, tolerance, democracy.”

He also sets out what the three religions have in common, such as injunctions against murder, respect for life, and he will explain how must Muslims do not take the extremist view. “They do not recognize themselves in our picture of Islam, because they want to be loyal citizens of the Islamic religion,” says, calling for fairness in the condemnations by the West. “Those who make Islam responsible for kidnappings, suicide attacks, car bombs and beheadings carried out by a few blind extremists ought at the same time to condemn Christianity or Judaism for the barbarous maltreatment of prisoners, the air strikes and tank attacks carried out by the US Army - several 10,000 civilians have been murdered in Iraq alone - and the terrorism of the Israeli army of occupation in Palestine.”

Professor Kung’s lecture will be broadcast on Sky Arts, channel 267, on June 23rd at 7.15pm The Sky Arts accompanying series on the art and architecture of religious buildings, called Art of Faith, can be seen on Sunday nights at 7pm.

Islam is stuck in the Middle Ages, says leading interfaith expert -Times Online

[wheelworks]

Funny how the west reached it's modern state with significant help form the Muslims who based their core discoveries from Islam donchaknow .

Some western thinkers have been smelling too much fumes from modern western toilets me thinks

[Wolfn]

Islam is stuck in the Middle Ages

I don't live in a castle or wear a suit of armor.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Wolfn

I don't live in a castle or wear a suit of armor.

But you wear a ninja suit and live in a... dorm...

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by Wolfn

I don't live in a castle or wear a suit of armor.

This guys does (well, I'm not sure about the living in a castle bit but...)


think he's Muslim?

[jinnzaman]

The paradox of post-modernism is that it would recognize Islam as being stuck in the middle ages and have no qualms about it, so what the professor is talking about, really, is how Islam doesn't conform to Eurocentric values.

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

The paradox of post-modernism is that it would recognize Islam as being stuck in the middle ages and have no qualms about it, so what the professor is talking about, really, is how Islam doesn't conform to Eurocentric values.

How's this a paradox?

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by Timbit

How's this a paradox?

Because the entire concept behind post-modernism is to reject the assertion of universal values which are merely Eurocentric and therefore particular manifestations of a local culture (i.e. Europe). A true proponent of post-modernism would say that all local cultures have value so there's no need in distinguishing between Western, Islamic, African, or Sinic cultures, etc. They're all theoretically equally valid. So saying Islam is medieval is actually not really post-moderism at all, its regular old Enlightenment era modernism which is inherently Eurocentric.

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

Because the entire concept behind post-modernism is to reject the assertion of universal values which are merely Eurocentric and therefore particular manifestations of a local culture. A true proponent of post-modernism would say that all local cultures have value so there's no need in distinguishing between Western, Islamic, African, or Sinic cultures, etc. They're all theoretically equally valid. So saying Islam is medieval is actually not really post-moderism at all, its regular old Enlightenment era modernism which is inherently Eurocentric.

Cool.

I didn't read the article ('cause ew, who'd want to with a title like that?), but was the guy using postmodern theory? 'Cause not everybody subscribes to it.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by Timbit

Cool.

I didn't read the article ('cause ew, who'd want to with a title like that?), but was the guy using postmodern theory? 'Cause not everybody subscribes to it.

Yeah, he was using post-modern theory:

He questions whether Islam is even capable of adapting to a post-modern world in the way that Christianity and Judaism have done.

[Timbit]

He probably just meant "modern". A lot of people use the terms interchangeably. Really. And he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.

And yeah, modernity is Eurocentric.
Down with hegemony!

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by Timbit

He probably just meant "modern". A lot of people use the terms interchangeably. Really. And he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.

And yeah, modernity is Eurocentric.
Down with hegemony!

Haha, you should reallyyyyyy check out post-modernism. Its pretty awesome.

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

Haha, you should reallyyyyyy check out post-modernism. Its pretty awesome.

Recommend anything to read?

I know a little bit about it and so far, I haven't found it awesome at all. Seems to me like it's just moral relativism.

Meh. Post-modernism is confusing.
And the professor in the original post is probably confused about it too and that's why he's using it to mean modernity.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by Timbit

Recommend anything to read?

I know a little bit about it and so far, I haven't found it awesome at all. Seems to me like it's just moral relativism.

Meh. Post-modernism is confusing.
And the professor in the original post is probably confused about it too and that's why he's using it to mean modernity.

I don't know if post-modernism posits in moral relativsm, but its more likely that it rejects the concept of universal morality as nothing more than a dictatorship of Enlightenment era values. (i love that phrase. i made it up and its copyrighted!)

Check out "The Post-Modern Condition."

Its not confusing at all if you have a proper grasp on Enlightenment era concepts such as reason, freedom, universalism. Have you read any Kant?

Pactarya will probably be able to do a better job in breaking it down for you than me, he's more well read on these subjects.

[Timbit]

K Jinnz, I can see that you don't like the values that came with the Enlightenment (yes, I've read a little bit of Kant) but from an Islamic perspective, it's not like postmodernism is better.

This is on my to-read list though: