[Jaysh]

Please stay on topic. No deviant sects allowed to post here. Stay on topic. If you want, create another thread where you can spread your deviant ideas.

Question: Are hadîth qudsî the most authentic hadîth?

Answered by the Fatwa Department Research Committee - chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî

A hadîth qudsî (a "sacred" hadîth) simply means that the text of the hadîth quotes the words of Allah. It is a term used to classify hadîth on the basis of content, not on the basis of authenticity.

Any hadîth where it is related that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) said: “Allah says…” is classified as a hadîth qudsî.

An example of a hadîth qudsî is where the Prophet (peace be upon him) related to us that Allah says:

I am as My servant thinks of Me. I am with him when he remembers Me. If he mentions Me within himself, I mention him within Myself. If he mentions Me in an assembly, I mention him in a better assembly. If he comes near to Me a handspan, I come near to him the distance of a cubit. If he comes near to Me the distance of a cubit, I come near to him the distance of two outspread arms. If he comes to Me walking, I come to him running. [Sahîh al-Bukhârî (6856) and Sahîh Muslim (4832)]

There are many hadîth qudsî in Sahîh al-Bukhârî and . These are all regarded as authentic.

There are many hadîth qudsî found in the four Sunan books and other collections. These may be classified authentic (sahîh), good (hasan), weak (da`îf), false (bâtil), or fabricated (mawdû’). These terms refer to the authenticity of the hadîth. They are used to describe how well it can be determined that the Prophet (peace be upon him) actually made the statement reported in the hadîth.

The authenticity of each hadîth has to be determined on its own merits, just like any other hadîth.

In order to determine the authenticity of the hadîth, its chain of transmission must be heavily scrutinized. A hadîth will be authentic only if all of its narrators are trustworthy and reliable and only if there is no gap in the chain of transmission. If any of the narrators is unknown, has a bad memory, or gets confused in his narrations, or if there are gaps in the chain of transmission, then the hadîth will be weak (da`îf). If any of the narrators are liars, the hadîth will be considered a fabrication (mawdû`).

And Allah knows best.

[riad19]

what happened to our extensive discussion

[proudtobemuslim]

It is disgraceful how your men of the cloth can dismiss a hadith of the Holy Messenger as being fabrication (i.e. dismissing it as a mere lie) because it was narrated by a liar. Yes, in that case the hadith is weak and its authenticity cannot be proven, yet to completely reject it is near-blasphemous as you will find many times a hadith which is narrated with an authentic chain of tranmission with another chain which contains liars, so that particular narrator could not have been lying then, and does not lie all the time

Fear Allah.

[TrentReznor858]

Originally Posted by proudtobemuslim

It is disgraceful how your men of the cloth can dismiss a hadith of the Holy Messenger as being false (i.e. dismissing it as a mere lie) because it was narrated by a liar. Yes, in that case the hadith is weak and its authenticity cannot be proven, yet to completely reject it is near-blasphemous as you will find many times a hadith which is narrated with an authentic chain of tranmission with another chain which contains liars, so that particular narrator could not have been lying then, and does not lie all the time

Fear Allah.

Yay another extremist. Whats next, O great one? Are you going to tell us we all need to perform Jihad?

[proudtobemuslim]

Originally Posted by TrentReznor858

Yay another extremist. Whats next, O great one? Are you going to tell us we all need to perform Jihad?

How is defending the sanctity of the speech of Nabi Allah Mohammed extremism.

[Abu_Hind]

Originally Posted by proudtobemuslim

It is disgraceful how your men of the cloth can dismiss a hadith of the Holy Messenger as being fabrication (i.e. dismissing it as a mere lie) because it was narrated by a liar. Yes, in that case the hadith is weak and its authenticity cannot be proven, yet to completely reject it is near-blasphemous as you will find many times a hadith which is narrated with an authentic chain of tranmission with another chain which contains liars, so that particular narrator could not have been lying then, and does not lie all the time

Fear Allah.

Yes we need to fear Allah. But can you tell us how your scholars authenticate hadith?

[TrentReznor858]

Originally Posted by proudtobemuslim

How is defending the sanctity of the speech of Nabi Allah Mohammed extremism.

A) There is no 6th pillar.

B) Jihad means struggle, so that can interpreted in a variety of ways.

C) Suicide bombing, killing civilians, and terrorist attacks are NOT jihad.

[proudtobemuslim]

Originally Posted by TrentReznor858

A) There is no 6th pillar.

B) Jihad means struggle, so that can interpreted in a variety of ways.

C) Suicide bombing, killing civilians, and terrorist attacks are NOT jihad.

Please put down the green stuff. When the **** did I talk about suicide bombing and killing civilians. I think you're having me confused with someone else loool.

To you, is being a devout Muslim who defends the Prophet of God, equivalent to supporting the barbaric acts of killing innocent civilians, which is espoused by filth and riff-raff in certain parts of the Saudi Arabian, Pakistani and other scholarships!?

Seriously, what are you on

And yes Jihad is considered a 6th pillar by some scholars, both in the Sonni and the Shia.

[riad19]

Originally Posted by proudtobemuslim

It is disgraceful how your men of the cloth can dismiss a hadith of the Holy Messenger as being fabrication (i.e. dismissing it as a mere lie) because it was narrated by a liar. Yes, in that case the hadith is weak and its authenticity cannot be proven, yet to completely reject it is near-blasphemous as you will find many times a hadith which is narrated with an authentic chain of tranmission with another chain which contains liars, so that particular narrator could not have been lying then, and does not lie all the time

Fear Allah.

if the Matn of a hadith of a weaker chain is supported by another strong chain, then obviously that text is accepted. Even when there are few ahadith of the same matn that are related with multiple weak chains, depending on the weakness of the chains, that hadith can be classified as Hasan by corroboration.

So I really dont know what you are complaining about.

The Ulama try to err on the side of caution, because unless you are sure, its haram to attribute something to the Prophet (s). One of the famous mutawatir ahadith, which is in the same level as the Quran in terms of authenticity, is the hadith where Prophet (s) promised a place in hellfire for a person who attributes a lie to him. So its better to be safe than sorry.

Defending the sanctity of Nabi (s) isnt to attribute ahadith from well known liars to him, but rather to be cautious in that matter.