[Abdul_Karim]

...are inside the Ummah itself. These people prevent the Ummah from uniting upon the Sunnah.

PROBLEM #1: The Salafis - For subverting the fiqh of Ahl as-Sunnah.

They will deny it, but the Salafis are not only anti-madhhab, they are anti-fiqh. The Salafis' haphazard approach to fiqh makes it possible for them to subvert the political imperatives of Islam. In the name of "returning to the manhaj of the salaf" they have effectively denied the obligation of jihaad, redefined the obligation of zakah, and denied the obligation to establish Allah's law in the land. This mainly applies to the "Madkhali" salafis.

PROBLEM #2: The Ash'aris - For subverting the creed of Ahl as-Sunnah

The Ash'aris are Islam's equivilent to the Medieval theologians who debated how many angels could fit on the head of a pen. Islam's creed is pure and simple. Everyone from the most educated academic to the lowliest peasant can understand it.

But, a long time ago, some people were not satisfied with that. They believed that Islam had to be bolstered with "rational arguments". The Mutazilah, Islam's first "rationalists" were then soundly discredited by the Imams of Ahl as-Sunnah, most notably, Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal. Imam Ahmad and the traditionists had defeated the Mutazilah with scripture and transmitted knowledge.

But some people still didn't think Islam was complete. They still thought Islam needed extra-scriptural arguments. These were the Ash'aris. In a particularly bizarre move, they put together a patchwork theology from scraps of Aristotle's theory of categories and the metaphysics of the Atomists. Ironically, the Greek Atomists had used atomism as an argument against the existence of God. The Ash'aris never found a hair-splitting pointless contention they didn't like. The Ash'aris created a theology so complicated that only about 7 people in history were ever able to understand it. These were the Ash'ari mutakallimun.

Most strange about the Ash'aris "rational arguments" is that to be convinced by them, you have to already accept Ash'ari metaphysics as true, since their entire system rests on believing in Atomism. Hence, to be convinced by Ash'ari arguments, one must already be an Ash'ari.

PROBLEM #3: The Sufis - For subverting the manner of worship of Ahl as-Sunnah.

The Sufis claim to be all about "purifying the soul". Their means of "purifying their souls" include joining Freemasonry-esque mystical organizations (tariqah), reciting dhikrs written by the founder of their order (awrad), rocking back and forth in unison (hadrah), spinning around while wearing big hats (the Mevlevi sama), and playing Harmoniums while singing like a animal being tortured (the Chisti Qawwali, a.k.a. the most irritating music known to man).

They don't seem to think that anything from the Qur'an or Sunnah can purify their souls.

Discuss.

[shadha]

Racism.
Sexism.
Tribalism.


shadha-

[IbnMardhiyah]

As far as I'm aware, nabeyuna Muhammad [saws] identified a very different set of three problems:

- abandonment of jihad
- engaging in al3inah [roundabout ways of usury / interest]
- following the tails of cattle [engagement too much in secondary pursuits like agriculture to the exclusion of more important matters]

[Rambo]

i would never call myself of any group, i think it is a major sin to divide your self on purpose. I really dont know whats going in the mind of people when they call them selves as proud salafis or sufis, why not just call your self muslims?
You can follow certian things from all these groups and call your self just muslim. I personally like a lot of things about sufis, but yes there are things i disagree with them on too.

[Wolfn]

Crab people?

[Variable]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

As far as I'm aware, nabeyuna Muhammad [saws] identified a very different set of three problems:

- abandonment of jihad
- engaging in al3inah [roundabout ways of usury / interest]
- following the tails of cattle [engagement too much in secondary pursuits like agriculture to the exclusion of more important matters]

Agriculture? Not really what I was expecting as a 'less important' 'secondary' pursuit.

[AmroodWaala]

Originally Posted by Variable

Agriculture? Not really what I was expecting as a 'less important' 'secondary' pursuit.

following the tails of cattle in today's world equals being too absorbed into pursuit of material wealth, climbing the financial ladder, life of convenience, etc.

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by Abdul_Karim

....debated how many angels could fit on the head of a pen.

Huh, I never knew where that phrase came from. When my computer debates that question, I get the screen of death, and have to restart.

Your points are interesting, but it seems to me that those problems include most of the ummah itself, since most everyone follows one of those three paths to some extent.

[AmroodWaala]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

As far as I'm aware, nabeyuna Muhammad [saws] identified a very different set of three problems:

- abandonment of jihad
- engaging in al3inah [roundabout ways of usury / interest]
- following the tails of cattle [engagement too much in secondary pursuits like agriculture to the exclusion of more important matters]

Karim has a point. The splits within the Ummah create difficulties in reconciling and resolving the current issues.

Take the "abandonment of Jihad". What is Jihad? Each has its own definition, the preferred method, and how it should be pursued. Any misstep from the given guidelines within each sect will be condemned.

[Jaysh]

Originally Posted by Abdul_Karim

...are inside the Ummah itself. These people prevent the Ummah from uniting upon the Sunnah.

PROBLEM #1: The Salafis - For subverting the fiqh of Ahl as-Sunnah.

PROBLEM #2: The Ash'aris - For subverting the creed of Ahl as-Sunnah


PROBLEM #3: The Sufis - For subverting the manner of worship of Ahl as-Sunnah.

So basically everyone other than you...?

[Jaysh]

OK three biggest problems for the Ummah.

Number #1: Lack of Caliphate

Number #2: Abandonment of ijtihad and instead a reliance on what such-and-such scholars of old said, instead of sticking to the Quran and Sunnah.

Number #3: Extremists from both sides (modernists and terrorists)

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by Variable

Agriculture? Not really what I was expecting as a 'less important' 'secondary' pursuit.

See Amrood's post ...

Originally Posted by AmroodWaala

following the tails of cattle in today's world equals being too absorbed into pursuit of material wealth, climbing the financial ladder, life of convenience, etc.

Ditto. If in case I wasn't clear, you don't engage in things like agriculture for free - you're in it for the pursuit of money. That in itself is not a bad thing unless you're pursuing the money purely and only for personal gain.

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Huh, I never knew where that phrase came from. When my computer debates that question, I get the screen of death, and have to restart.

It's supposed to be how many angels can fit on the head of a pin, not a pen. I don't know why AK wrote pen, I assume its a typo.

[Blue_Phoenix]

In other words, the Ummah's three biggest problems are Muslims, more Muslims, and just a few more Muslims.

[Revert]

Hard Heartedness

Abandonment of the Din

Snobbery

[Variable]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

See Amrood's post ...

I'm still not seeing how agriculture fits into that.