[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

Thanks but no thanks guys.

They don't call me Maverick for nothing.

Maverick eh? Okay, let's talk business, how about we hire your services?

Although we find your razor sharp posts and sledgehammer approach alarming at times, this could also be a useful tool that we would be willing to compensate you handsomely for. After all, you are a good God-fearing man who would want to stand up to inequity and make some wealth at the same time, yes?

[Jaysh]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Maverick eh? Okay, let's talk business, how about we hire your services?

Although we find your razor sharp posts and sledgehammer approach alarming at times, this could also be a useful tool that we would be willing to compensate you handsomely for. After all, you are a good God-fearing man who would want to stand up to inequity and make some wealth at the same time, yes?

Civ alert: Jaysh of Jayshia declares war on Ibn of Mardhiyah.

*war trumpet sounds*

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by Jaysh

Civ alert: Jaysh of Jayshia declares war on Ibn of Mardhiyah.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Maverick eh? Okay, let's talk business, how about we hire your services?

Although we find your razor sharp posts and sledgehammer approach alarming at times, this could also be a useful tool that we would be willing to compensate you handsomely for. After all, you are a good God-fearing man who would want to stand up to inequity and make some wealth at the same time, yes?

Maverick Inc. thanks you for your interest but regrets to inform you that the terms of your proposal would create a potential conflict of interest, and therefore cannot be considered at this time.

We look forward to creating mutually beneficial partnerships in the future.

Thank you and kind regards,

Ibn of Mardhiyah
Chairman and President, Maverick Inc.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

Maverick Inc. thanks you for your interest but regrets to inform you that the terms of your proposal would create a potential conflict of interest, and therefore cannot be considered at this time.

We look forward to creating mutually beneficial partnerships in the future.

Thank you and kind regards,

Ibn of Mardhiyah
Chairman and President, Maverick Inc.

We are disappointedism at your declination of our acceptination, however we respectfully Eurocentricise your hegemony, and look forwardesque to your future cooperativenessism.

[zakk]

Originally Posted by Revert

Also the TMNT should be revered by all Muslims ...

That's right!

Teenage Muslim Ninja Sisters.... heroes in the hijab!

[Abu_Hind]

Please continue the talks.

-Muttawa League Elders Council.

[the_only_one]

OP:

1.Lack of Sacred Knowledge
2. Lack of Role models who'd implement that Knowledge in their practical lives.
3.Lack of Good Scholars who prohibit takfiring.

[Abu_Hind]

Originally Posted by the_only_one

OP:

1.Lack of Sacred Knowledge
2. Lack of Role models who'd implement that Knowledge in their practical lives.
3.Lack of Good Scholars who prohibit takfiring.

Point three, do you even know anything about takfir? People indeed have gone to extremes in this regards, but there are conditions and takfir is part of islam.

Please consider applying point one on yourself with regards to point 3. Thanks.


-Muttawa League

[the_only_one]

Originally Posted by Abu_Hind

Point three, do you even know anything about takfir? People indeed have gone to extremes in this regards, but there are conditions and takfir is part of islam.

Please consider applying point one on yourself with regards to point 3. Thanks.


-Muttawa League

I shall. inshaAllah only after you brother. This is the only viable appproach to acheive goal # 2.

Please allow yourself to get out of your own mindset and be open minded to what others have to share.

[Abu_Hind]

Originally Posted by the_only_one

I shall. inshaAllah only after you brother. This is the only viable appproach to acheive goal # 2.

Please allow yourself to get out of your own mindset and be open minded to what others have to share.

Coated within your supposed sarcasm is the insinuation that I somehow support a position which is extreme or narrow minded. More arrogant eurocentric banter. pshttt.


On an actual serious note: We shouldn't speak about things without knowledge.

[the_only_one]

Originally Posted by Abu_Hind

Coated within your supposed sarcasm is the insinuation that I somehow support a position which is extreme or narrow minded.

Ah! I like... a self reached conclusion.

joking!

More arrogant eurocentric banter. pshttt.

If you say so, Sir!

On an actual serious note: We shouldn't speak about things without knowledge.

Agreed with your statement here.

Originally Posted by Abu_Hind

Point three, do you even know anything about takfir? People indeed have gone to extremes in this regards, but there are conditions and takfir is part of islam

I agreed with the first part of the statement but the second part of your statement doesn't sit quiet right with me..only because what I know that

As Sheikh Nuh Keller says, " There is wide scholarly consensus on this tolerance of Islam, and we have heard from Imam Ash'ari that he did not consider anyone who prayed towards the qibla to be an unbeliever, from Razi that he did not consider anyone to be an unbeliever whose words could possibly mean anything besides, and from Ibn Taymiya that he considered everyone who faithfully prays with ablution to be a believer. None of them believed that a Muslim can go to hell on a technicality."

so really, making takfir is necessary?

..and Allah knows best.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by LEGALEAGLE

The natives of one Central American State were on the verge of kicking the christian colonialists out of their country...but then they decided that collecting the harvest was more important...as a result the christians were able to recover their position, occupy the country and enslave the natives...

Where did you read that?

[Jaysh]

Originally Posted by the_only_one

As Sheikh Nuh Keller says, " There is wide scholarly consensus on this tolerance of Islam, and we have heard from Imam Ash'ari that he did not consider anyone who prayed towards the qibla to be an unbeliever, from Razi that he did not consider anyone to be an unbeliever whose words could possibly mean anything besides, and from Ibn Taymiya that he considered everyone who faithfully prays with ablution to be a believer. None of them believed that a Muslim can go to hell on a technicality."

Sister you have been bamboozled by the bamboozler.

As for Imam ar-Razi (ra) and Imam Ashari (ra), you should know that they went through stages in their life, and you should only take what came from them in their last stage, when they were upon the Sunnah. Having said that, what you conveyed from them does not seem to negate takfeer in any case. In regards to what you conveyed, that he said "whose words could possibly mean anything besides", then so what? This does not negate Takfeer! It merely means that when there is doubt, then we do not engage in takfeer of an individual. And this is well known, that we look for clear and explicit proof of kufr and apostasy. This does NOT in ANY way mean that there is no takfeer at all.

As for Ibn Taymiyyah (ra), you said that he said "anyone who faithfully prays"...

You know the hadeeth about whoever says the kalima sincerely is a Muslim, READ WHAT THE SCHOLARS SAY ABOUT THIS HADEETH.

There are seven conditions which must be met in order for this kalima to be accepted.

Read here:

Islam Question and Answer - The Conditions of the Testimony of Faith

So the same is said about the one who does prayer. Conditions must be met.

The Qadianis face Qiblah! Do you consider them Muslims when they also face the Qiblah!

It is well known that the Imams of Ahl as-Sunnah have done takfeer, including the ones you mentioned. This should negate your position that there is no takfeer! For example, Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (ra) did takfeer on the one who claims that the Quran is tampered with, even if that person prays !!!

so really, making takfir is necessary?

Sister, if you deny takfeer, then you would become like the Murjia, a sect which is outside the folds of Ahl as-Sunnah, and one of the accursed sects.

Do not go to excess!

Takfeer is a part of Islam. Excessive takfeer is not.

The scholars said:

After looking at the mentioned book, it was found that it contains what was said (by IbraheemAl-Hamadaani), as it establishes and calls for Murji’ah Math-hab, that is there is no Kufr except that of Juhood (rejection) and Tak-theeb (Belying). It also introduces this cursed Math-hab as if it were the Math-hab of As-Sunnah, All of that is Jahl (ignorance) of the truth and Talbees (mixing the facts with fantasies) and it is also Tadh-leel (misguiding) for the brains of the youth, making it look as if it were the saying of the Salaf of the Ummah and its knowledgeable scholars.

Yet it is the Math-hab of the Murji-ah, who claim that no Sin should harm, once Iman is there. And Iman, in there view, is the belief of the heart, and Kufr is Tak-theeb (belying) and this is an extreme in looseness.

On the opposite, there is the invalid Math-hab Al-Khawarij, which is an extreme of lightening, regarding Takfeer. Both of the two Math-habs are invalid and rejected as ways of misguidance.

Allaah has guided the Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jamaa’ah to the correct saying and true way and to the middle belief between the two extremes, They preserve the ‘Erd of the Muslim and his religion and they believe that a Muslim should not be made a Kafir except when it is truly supported by Daleel (evidence), They also believe that Kufr is established through: saying, actions/leaving actions, belief and/or suspicion, all the proofs from the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah are gathered to support that.

Signed:

Abdul-Azeez Ibn Baz
Abdul-Azeez Ibn Abdullaah Al-Shaikh
Saleh Ibn Fawzan Al-Fawzan
Abdullaah Ibn Abdur-Rahman Al-Ghudaiyan
Bakr Abu Zaid

[Bluestar]

someone's a yellow belly. That's the second time you've changed your post after i've replied. There's one problem with the ummah, staring you right in....i'd say face but i wouldn't know which one.