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05-11-2008, 06:10 PM
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Re: sufism
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Originally Posted by Abu_Hind
If you are looking for an authentic work on authentic tasswuf, try shaykhul islam Muhiyuddeen abdal qadir jilani's 'al-ghunya' (try to get urdu translation by hafiz mubashar lahori). The english translation by Muhtar Holland is far from reliable.
Also, as far as I know "Tassawuf" as a science is for advanced students of knowledge who learn it from a shaykh. So, I don't understand this modern fad of joining a tariqah, " oh masha Allah masha Allah shaykh nazim.." "...oh when I go to kharabsheh I feel a spirirtual high...". Stuff like that?
I don't get it. It's strange because tassawuf without sound knowledge of fiqh and aqidah can be very misleading.
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I don't think you should call it a fad. I find that somewhat disrespectful to those who are sincerely trying to attain ma'rifa and put in a lot of effort to get close to Allah. That's not to say that there are not people who do see it as a club, but that's between them and their Lord and should not take away from the tariqas themselves.
The feeling "high" when you go to Kharabsheh is simply the idea of keeping good company. This is from the sunnah as I'm sure you know the hadith about the one who goes to a perfume seller and the effect etc... |
05-11-2008, 06:47 PM
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Re: sufism
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Originally Posted by Salika
I don't think you should call it a fad. I find that somewhat disrespectful to those who are sincerely trying to attain ma'rifa and put in a lot of effort to get close to Allah. That's not to say that there are not people who do see it as a club, but that's between them and their Lord and should not take away from the tariqas themselves.
The feeling "high" when you go to Kharabsheh is simply the idea of keeping good company. This is from the sunnah as I'm sure you know the hadith about the one who goes to a perfume seller and the effect etc...
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I'm sorry if it offended you. It was an exaggerated example, and I definitely agree with you that in company of th awliyah and the pious one DOES feel spirirtually high. Barak Allahu feeki.
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"...wa huwwa ma'akum ayna maa kuntum..." (surah al-hadid 57:4)
A poet said:
*Oh ye who isn't satisfied with his sins in Rajab*
*So much so that you continued disobedience in Sha'baan,*
*The month of fasting has now come upon you*
*So do not convert it also to a month of disobedience* .
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05-11-2008, 06:52 PM
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Re: sufism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu_Hind
I'm sorry if it offended you. It was an exaggerated example, and I definitely agree with you that in company of th awliyah and the pious one DOES feel spirirtually high. Barak Allahu feeki.
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What does that mean? I have heard people say something to that affect for the longest time.....I never understood it. How would you know what being "high" means? Everyone talks of an experience like this when they go to the holy city of Mekkah and Madinah, but I did not experience any sort of euphoric effect, even though both sites had a deep personal connection and meaning to me, not to mention the gratification of doing something so important in my life.. 
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Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry,their passions a quotation - Oscar Wilde.
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness - Sophocles.
A dream is the answer to a question we do not know how to ask - Fox Mulder.
As it is the characteristic of great wits to say much in few words, so small wits seem to have the gift of speaking much and saying nothing - La Rochefoucauld.
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05-11-2008, 07:08 PM
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Re: sufism
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Originally Posted by TrentReznor858
What does that mean? I have heard people say something to that affect for the longest time.....I never understood it. How would you know what being "high" means? Everyone talks of an experience like this when they go to the holy city of Mekkah and Madinah, but I did not experience any sort of euphoric effect, even though both sites had a deep personal connection and meaning to me, not to mention the gratification of doing something so important in my life.. |
Pray to Allah that He opens your heart, I guess. As Imam al-Ghazzali said it is something 'experiential', it is not entirely rationally explanable. The effect increases the more we try to actualize Islam in our lives. This is the 'secret'  .
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"...wa huwwa ma'akum ayna maa kuntum..." (surah al-hadid 57:4)
A poet said:
*Oh ye who isn't satisfied with his sins in Rajab*
*So much so that you continued disobedience in Sha'baan,*
*The month of fasting has now come upon you*
*So do not convert it also to a month of disobedience* .
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05-11-2008, 07:10 PM
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Re: sufism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu_Hind
Pray to Allah that He opens your heart, I guess. As Imam al-Ghazzali said it is something 'experiential', it is not entirely rationally explanable. The effect increases the more we try to actualize Islam in our lives. This is the 'secret' . |
yup its only very people who know the secret, but every one can learn it if they open their heart |
05-11-2008, 07:16 PM
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Re: sufism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu_Hind
Pray to Allah that He opens your heart, I guess. As Imam al-Ghazzali said it is something 'experiential', it is not entirely rationally explanable. The effect increases the more we try to actualize Islam in our lives. This is the 'secret' . |
My heart was as open as it possibly could have been! I am not looking for a rational explanation, as I am sure there isnt one. I want to know how people know they are having the experience, especially if they have never been "high" before. I also cannot believe that "actualizing" Islam in your life makes you "spiritually high'.
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Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry,their passions a quotation - Oscar Wilde.
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness - Sophocles.
A dream is the answer to a question we do not know how to ask - Fox Mulder.
As it is the characteristic of great wits to say much in few words, so small wits seem to have the gift of speaking much and saying nothing - La Rochefoucauld.
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05-11-2008, 07:38 PM
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Re: sufism
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Originally Posted by TrentReznor858
My heart was as open as it possibly could have been! I am not looking for a rational explanation, as I am sure there isnt one. I want to know how people know they are having the experience, especially if they have never been "high" before. I also cannot believe that "actualizing" Islam in your life makes you "spiritually high'. |
The first step on the spiritual path requires sincerity and humility. Strive in those two things and constantly beg for guidance and inshaAllah, you will make progress. |
05-11-2008, 08:00 PM
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Re: sufism
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentReznor858
My heart was as open as it possibly could have been! I am not looking for a rational explanation, as I am sure there isnt one. I want to know how people know they are having the experience, especially if they have never been "high" before. I also cannot believe that "actualizing" Islam in your life makes you "spiritually high'. |
I'm not sure what others mean when they say spiritually "high" but I've always understood it to be basically increased himma (spiritual resolve) that is you feel as though you want to strive more to become close to Allah, praying more, fasting more, doing more dhikr, improving your character..
It's like if you're at college and you go to a study group and you haven't been coming up as much as you should be and see how everyone knows their stuff so well and you're like "dang, I want to be that smart" so you go home and study and try your best to get it right. Naw mean? |
05-11-2008, 08:02 PM
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Re: sufism
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Originally Posted by Abu_Hind
I'm sorry if it offended you. It was an exaggerated example, and I definitely agree with you that in company of th awliyah and the pious one DOES feel spirirtually high. Barak Allahu feeki.
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No worries, I wasn't really offended per se. It's just I see some people who really struggle and do all they can and to call it a fad was taking away from it, ya know? I can totally see how some make it out to be fad and I think that's very unfortunate... |
05-11-2008, 08:05 PM
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Re: sufism
Talbis Iblis by Ibn al-Jawzi is the best book on Sufism (and other heresies) ever written.
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05-11-2008, 08:16 PM
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Re: sufism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Salika
I'm not sure what others mean when they say spiritually "high" but I've always understood it to be basically increased himma (spiritual resolve) that is you feel as though you want to strive more to become close to Allah, praying more, fasting more, doing more dhikr, improving your character..
It's like if you're at college and you go to a study group and you haven't been coming up as much as you should be and see how everyone knows their stuff so well and you're like "dang, I want to be that smart" so you go home and study and try your best to get it right. Naw mean?
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No  What does any of this have to do with being spiritually high? As in euphoric effects?
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Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry,their passions a quotation - Oscar Wilde.
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness - Sophocles.
A dream is the answer to a question we do not know how to ask - Fox Mulder.
As it is the characteristic of great wits to say much in few words, so small wits seem to have the gift of speaking much and saying nothing - La Rochefoucauld.
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05-11-2008, 11:20 PM
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Re: sufism
I have a question for the Soofis and their sympathizers: who from amongst the Sahabah do you attribute to Soofiyya?
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05-11-2008, 11:27 PM
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Re: sufism
Revert: Bro you need to stop listening to others and crack open a few books.
That's what I been saying.
shadha-
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05-11-2008, 11:34 PM
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Re: sufism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaysh
I have a question for the Soofis and their sympathizers: who from amongst the Sahabah do you attribute to Soofiyya?
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Tassawuf is just a term like fiqh, masalih, tazkiyah etc...
Whether you call it tazkiyah or tassawuf it is essentially the same thing. However, in organized tassawuf a lot of shirk and bid'aat have crept in. Ibn Qayyim's magnum opus on tazkiyah "madarij as salikin", for instance, is a commentary/abridgement on Abdullah al-amsari al-harawi al-hanbali's masterpiece on tassawuf 'manazil al-sairin".
A contemporary wahhabi/hanbali treatise on tazkiyah which employs the same terms used in tassawuf (such as stations, states etc...) is "The Exquisite Pearl" by Shaykh abdurrahman as-sa'di (ra).
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"...wa huwwa ma'akum ayna maa kuntum..." (surah al-hadid 57:4)
A poet said:
*Oh ye who isn't satisfied with his sins in Rajab*
*So much so that you continued disobedience in Sha'baan,*
*The month of fasting has now come upon you*
*So do not convert it also to a month of disobedience* .
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05-11-2008, 11:35 PM
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Re: sufism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu_Hind
Tassawuf is just a term like fiqh, masalih, tazkiyah etc...
Whether you call it tazkiyah or tassawuf it is essentially the same thing. However, in organized tassawuf a lot of shirk and bid'aat have crept in. Ibn Qayyim's magnum opus on tazkiyah "madarij as salikin", for instance, is a commentary/abridgement on Abdullah al-amsari al-harawi al-hanbali's masterpiece on tassawuf 'manazil al-sairin".
A contemporary wahhabi/hanbali treatise on tazkiyah which employs the same terms used in tassawuf (such as stations, states etc...) is "The Exquisite Pearl" by Shaykh abdurrahman as-sa'di (ra).
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Brother that is not my question. I understand that the term was not used back then, just like the term "Salafi" was not used back then.
I am asking them who they attribute themselves to. Who from amongst the Sahabah were most "Soofi-istic" to them? |
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