[AmroodWaala]

Originally Posted by Hanbali

We must stay in America, and warn our people of the doom that awaits them if they do not change their ways. We must be like Prophet Loot [as], as he was towards the people of Sodom.

If we leave them, who will warn them? Who will caution them and advise them?

the argument can go both ways. Who is going to defend the brothers back home? Who is going to warn them? Who is better to do this job than a brother who speaks the languages of both worlds, has seen both world from outside, understands the western politics, culture, propaganda tactics, etc.? Who is going to warn them about the dangers of western pop culture, "liberation of women", fast food,.....? Who is better for this job than a brother who has lived amongst the "privileged" and experienced "modernization" firsthand?

Who is going to show them the Other America - the one represented by Dewey, Twain, Dylan, Lennon, Chomsky, Malcolm X, ...?

The East needs you as much as the West does. But individuals have to analyze their personal situations (religious, financial, family, etc.) to make such decisions. I agree with you about the dawah part, provided we're acquainted with the etiquettes and mannerisms of giving dawah.

Originally Posted by Hanbali

As for those who don't ever care about hijrah--or who have never even heard of the concept--then it is THESE people who need to leave America and go to a Muslim country.
.

Disagree. What stops you from warning or giving dawah to "THESE people"?

[Jamroll]

I think I agree with Amrood on this one. Dawah to non-Muslims is extremely important, but I would say dawah to Muslims is more important. One of the reasons the Ummah is such a mess, is because many among the common Muslim man, woman and child is blown about like a leaf with whatever wind is blowing - they are confused and misguided, have severe doubt in their own identity as Muslims.

The most important part of a building is the foundation. The Muslims are our foundation. If they are weak and likely to crumble, then any extensions we build on top is likely to be unstable.

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

I think I agree with Amrood on this one. Dawah to non-Muslims is extremely important, but I would say dawah to Muslims is more important. One of the reasons the Ummah is such a mess, is because many among the common Muslim man, woman and child is blown about like a leaf with whatever wind is blowing - they are confused and misguided, have severe doubt in their own identity as Muslims.

The most important part of a building is the foundation. The Muslims are our foundation. If they are weak and likely to crumble, then any extensions we build on top is likely to be unstable.

Proportionately speaking, there's WAY more da3ees in the Muslim world than their are in the non-Muslim world. I think they are fairly well taken care of back there.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

Proportionately speaking, there's WAY more da3ees in the Muslim world than their are in the non-Muslim world. I think they are fairly well taken care of back there.

One more won't hurt.

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

One more won't hurt.

I agree, but here in the West, Muslims have massively more leverage in a great many things versus their compatriots in the Muslim countries.

Keeping efficiency in mind, a da3ee in the West has a lot more potential than one in a Muslim country.

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by shadha

Several Americans that I know of who spoke trash about America and made 'hijrah' to Saudi turned their asses back around within months.

And I know of several Americans who have left America and loved it in Saudia.

You Americans only hear of the ones that come back. Since the ones that stay in Saudi, you never hear from them again.

Does it pain you so much, Shadha, that someone would love a Muslim country more than your kaafir country?

I know of people who have left America for 20+ years and are doing strong in Saudia. But again, all of them are Salafi.

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Dawah to non-Muslims is extremely important, but I would say dawah to Muslims is more important.

Bro, the great need right now is for da'iees in Western countries. That is one of the reasons that the Saudi universities recruit from those countries, hoping that they can boost the number of da'iees in said countries. They strongly discourage their grads from staying in Saudia, even though many of the grads want desperately to settle in Saudia.

In Saudia, a grad from an Islamic university is nothing, compared to the great ulema that are numerous in the country. (The same can be said of many Arab countries, as well as Pakistan, India, etc.) So the use of a Western born da'iee is much less, as compared to the west, where a student of knowledge becomes a shaykh. Such is the dire need for da'iees in the West.

Remember: the desire is to do in the West what we did to Malaysia, with the Grace of Allah [swt]. So there is a LOOOOONG way to go.

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

Keeping efficiency in mind, a da3ee in the West has a lot more potential than one in a Muslim country.

Agreed. And that's why the Saudi universities expect their grads to go back and spread 'the good word' back in their Western countries of origin. It is one of the reasons that the Saudi uni's have an 'affirmative action' program, whereby whites are accepted much more easily than a brown skinned person.

[shadha]

Hanbali: But again, all of them are Salafi.

I'm surprised.


shadha-

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by shadha

Hanbali: But again, all of them are Salafi.

I'm surprised.


shadha-

Yeah, because modernists like you would seriously not fit in, considering its a very Islamic environment.

[shadha]

Hanbali: Yeah, because modernists like you would seriously not fit in, considering its a very Islamic environment.

ISLAMIC environment? Right.

Explain to me your many reasons as to why I wouldn't fit in with an ISLAMIC environment.


shadha-

[Revert]

Cut the Modernist BS. Theres nothing wroing in living in a climate you are accustomed too, so stop making epople feel like crap about it.

I know loads of people who went to Saudi and liked it but ended up moving to the UAE.

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by shadha

Hanbali: Yeah, because modernists like you would seriously not fit in, considering its a very Islamic environment.

ISLAMIC environment? Right.

Explain to me your many reasons as to why I wouldn't fit in with an ISLAMIC environment.


shadha-

I could write a whole book on why you wouldn't fit in.

[shadha]

Hanbali: I could write a whole book on why you wouldn't fit in.

Oh please entertain us with this. I'd love to read it.


shadha-

[Revert]

FYI there are plenty of places where Shadha would fit in in Saudi..its not all Religious Police and segregation.