[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by Hanbali

Life in Saudi is very comfortable. You can live a better quality of life in Saudia than in America.

Not really. Especially not for a physician. The opportunities are much greater and more lucrative in the United States for doctors, particularly after some years of practice.

You can live comfortably in Saudi, but much more so in the United States, but I'm sure you're aware of that.

ws

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

Ultimately, migrations are almost always motivated by financial and quality-of-life issues. It can be couched in all kinds of rationalizations, but thats just the way it is for nearly everybody. The "hijra" people are almost always purely talk, just like the "jihad" people. When the money and the comfort is there, hijra talk will be accompanied by hijra action

Don't know if I agree with that. Most of the people I know who did hijra certainly didn't do it for financial reasons nor for comfort. In fact, they subjected themselves to extreme hardships just to live in what they perceived an Islamic environment. I have a friend who had a rather comfortable job living in the US and he pretty much sold everything he had to move to Yemen just to be close to his Shaykh. I have another friend who was an attorney who was making a lot of money and he quit his job and moved to Saudiyyah for similar reasons. I have another friend who quit college and moved to South Africa to study in a maddrasseh. So I don't think its fair to exclude the possibility that some people perform migrations solely for spiritual reasons.

On an unrelated note, I wanted to point out that its not only Salafis that do hijrah to Saudiyyah. I know plenty of "Sufis" that have moved there as well.

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

On an unrelated note, I wanted to point out that its not only Salafis that do hijrah to Saudiyyah. I know plenty of "Sufis" that have moved there as well.

Yes, I know of Deobandis as well. By Salafi, I meant to imply 'hardcore Muslims'. Should have made that clearer.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

You can live comfortably in Saudi, but much more so in the United States, but I'm sure you're aware of that.

ws

But then you don't have the Islamic environment to live in and raise your children in. It's a slight trade-off and I think it depends on what you're looking for.

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

Don't know if I agree with that. Most of the people I know who did hijra certainly didn't do it for financial reasons nor for comfort. In fact, they subjected themselves to extreme hardships just to live in what they perceived an Islamic environment. I have a friend who had a rather comfortable job living in the US and he pretty much sold everything he had to move to Yemen just to be close to his Shaykh. I have another friend who was an attorney who was making a lot of money and he quit his job and moved to Saudiyyah for similar reasons. I have another friend who quit college and moved to South Africa to study in a maddrasseh. So I don't think its fair to exclude the possibility that some people perform migrations solely for spiritual reasons.

Salam

I dont doubt that, but like you said, its only some people. A small number. The net migration of muslims is out of yemen and into America, not vice versa. And most Americans (muslim or not) who migrate to Saudi do so with a job awaiting them. And the overall number of Americans migrating to Saudi Arabia is very small in the overall picture of world migration or muslim migration. Because America is a rich country. I'm just talking about the broad trend. Migration is driven by economic factors. Other stuff does come into play, usually stuff like wars and political upheaval and stuff like that... but religion too

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

Not really. Especially not for a physician. The opportunities are much greater and more lucrative in the United States for doctors, particularly after some years of practice.

You can live comfortably in Saudi, but much more so in the United States, but I'm sure you're aware of that.

ws

I disagree bro. I have many contacts who are doctors in Saudia. And they say the situation there is very good. Especially if you do your residency in America.

But you must understand that it's a different lifestyle. In America, your salary will most definitely have more zeros at the end of it. But you will not have much time to enjoy it. It's a rat race. Things are much more laid back in Saudia.

So in Saudia, your salary won't be so high, but they'll give you a couple cars, a house, they will pay for your child's education, etc.

The benefits in Saudia are more, whereas the pay is higher in America.

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

But then you don't have the Islamic environment to live in and raise your children in. It's a slight trade-off and I think it depends on what you're looking for.

yeah, and most people who have that choice pick America over Saudi.

ws

[frosama]

Maids/Drivers: Saudi>US

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

yeah, and most people who have that choice pick America over Saudi.

You are only stating the obvious.

This conversation is about RELIGIOUS HARDCORE Muslim conservatives (like Salafis), not the average Fulan ibn Fulan.

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by Hanbali

You are only stating the obvious.

This conversation is about RELIGIOUS HARDCORE Muslim conservatives (like Salafis), not the average Fulan ibn Fulan.

Give Bin Laden a green card and he'll be grilling my burgers at Kennedy Fried

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

Give Bin Laden a green card and he'll be grilling my burgers at Kennedy Fried

I seriously doubt that. This is actually a statement I'd expect an arrogant American neo-con to say.

Bin Ladin was a multi-millionaire, living a life ten times more luxurious than any of you Americans.

If he had wanted to go to America, then nothing would have prevented him from that (before he turned into a terrorist). Many of his family members are there. Had he wanted to live that life, he easily could have. His half-brother is a fashion designer in Europe. And his other half-brothers and half-sisters were in America, at least prior to 9/11.

Bin Ladin left an extremely luxurious life to live in a cave in Afghanistan, so I sincerely doubt that your statement is true. Although Bin Ladin was not a royal, his family most definitely rubbed shoulders with royals, and were royal-like.

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by Hanbali

I disagree bro. I have many contacts who are doctors in Saudia. And they say the situation there is very good. Especially if you do your residency in America.

But you must understand that it's a different lifestyle. In America, your salary will most definitely have more zeros at the end of it. But you will not have much time to enjoy it. It's a rat race. Things are much more laid back in Saudia.

So in Saudia, your salary won't be so high, but they'll give you a couple cars, a house, they will pay for your child's education, etc.

The benefits in Saudia are more, whereas the pay is higher in America.

I dunno dude. An Egyptian-American doctor in your field that I know got an offer from Saudi Arabia to work in a new government hospital (the government is the most generous employer there), and it wasnt all that great. Even when you take into account the perks and benefits. And this is during an oil boom which will certainly not last forever.

The work would probably be less, and accountability isnt so strict there unless you harm a saudi. I'm not saying that Saudi Arabia isnt attractive, alot of people were advising them to take the offer. I'm just saying that most people would pick America over it.

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by Hanbali

I seriously doubt that. This is actually a statement I'd expect an arrogant American neo-con to say.

Bin Ladin was a multi-millionaire, living a life ten times more luxurious than any of you Americans.

If he wanted to go to America, then nothing would have prevented him from that. Many of his family members are there. Had he wanted to live that life, he easily could have. His half-brother is a fashion designer in Europe. And his other half-brothers and half-sisters were in America, at least prior to 9/11.

it was a facetious comment

it was meant to convey the following:

"I disagree"

(specifically that most religious salafis would go live in Saudi Arabia instead of America if they could make that choice)

I do not actually think Osama would come flip burgers at my local kennedy fried if the US government offered him a green card

ws

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

it was a facetious comment

it was meant to convey the following:

"I disagree"

(specifically that most religious salafis would go live in Saudi Arabia instead of America if they could make that choice)

I do not actually think Osama would come flip burgers at my local kennedy fried if the US government offered him a green card

ws

lol ok. Man, this is the second time today I've misread someone's post. I think I'm turning into a fob, unable to understand sarcasm and all.