[MuslimahDaTurkish]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

Good article.

The Turks on the other hand need to set a base standard for what extremism is, as defined by the Prophet and not by other sources, and then separate that from actions or beliefs based on ignorance - such as the case of wearing a tie.

Nobody is trying to set a base standart for what extremism is, it is up to the community's habits. Not only pakis or turks, every muslim community has unislamic habits. Today's extremism is different than before already, u cant try to bring any simple answer from Prophet's time. Extremism is making something haraam to yourself which is not haraam in islam,thats what Prophet told us. And the answer lies within.
Wearing a silk tie is not haraam by the way. Silk is not haraam to males if it is only 4 fingers' width on the cloth,while indeed not touching to the skin.

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by MuslimahDaTurkish

Nobody is trying to set a base standart for what extremism is, it is up to the community's habits. Not only pakis or turks, every muslim community has unislamic habits. Today's extremism is different than before already, u cant try to bring any simple answer from Prophet's time. Extremism is making something haraam to yourself which is not haraam in islam,thats what Prophet told us. And the answer lies within.

i was trying to separate extremism from ignorance. Both can have horrific and tragic consequences.

Extremism is as what God and the Prophet defined. Islam is the middle path, its neither too liberal nor too conservative.

Ignorance is a much larger problem and that is why it is said that Shaytan fears a single, educated Muslim far more than a thousand ignorant zealots.

Wearing a silk tie is not haraam by the way. Silk is not haraam to males if it is only 4 fingers' width on the cloth,while indeed not touching to the skin.

There is ikhtilaaf on this issue.

In the interests of full disclosure, I should say that most of the ties I wear myself are silk - artificial silk, but silk nonetheless and yes, I was also advised by trusted imams that if it doesn't touch the skin, its acceptable, specifically in the case of ties.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by MuslimahDaTurkish

Nobody is trying to set a base standart for what extremism is, it is up to the community's habits. Not only pakis or turks, every muslim community has unislamic habits. Today's extremism is different than before already, u cant try to bring any simple answer from Prophet's time. Extremism is making something haraam to yourself which is not haraam in islam,thats what Prophet told us. And the answer lies within.
Wearing a silk tie is not haraam by the way. Silk is not haraam to males if it is only 4 fingers' width on the cloth,while indeed not touching to the skin.

Extremism is the same regardless of the time so you can find a simple soloution by looking at the Prophets time. He lived by the Quran if we do the same and live up to the standard expected by Allah(swt) then extremism would not exist.

[MuslimahDaTurkish]

Originally Posted by Revert

Extremism is the same regardless of the time so you can find a simple soloution by looking at the Prophets time. He lived by the Quran if we do the same and live up to the standard expected by Allah(swt) then extremism would not exist.

Oooo-Oooh really I dont think you got what i said, coz that has nothing to do with my statement. Who claimed the opposite?

[rahma]

I've often wondered is how the hanafi school in Turkey differs from the whole Deobandi vs. Barelvi subcontinent hanafi schools. I'm suprised the article didn't mention that both countries follow the same madhab, but that they interpret it differently.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by rahma

I've often wondered is how the hanafi school in Turkey differs from the whole Deobandi vs. Barelvi subcontinent hanafi schools. I'm suprised the article didn't mention that both countries follow the same madhab, but that they interpret it differently.

Ottoman fiqh was pretty advanced for its time. One of the notable differences is that in India, their was a huge revival of the science of hadeeth in the 1600s and that caused a lot of reinterpretations of rulings.

In terms of Turkey today, I don't know if its still representative of Ottoman Fiqh due to the coercion that the government places on Islam there. I'd be curious to know the key differences in fiqh as well, not just between Turkish and Indian fiqh, but also in terms of the transformation of scholarship from the Ottoman era (classical and during the Tanzimat period) and after the destruction of the Khalifate.

[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by rahma

I've often wondered is how the hanafi school in Turkey differs from the whole Deobandi vs. Barelvi subcontinent hanafi schools. I'm suprised the article didn't mention that both countries follow the same madhab, but that they interpret it differently.

I've met a few Hanafis from Turkey & the impression I've gotten is that they closely resemble the Barelvis in practice & belief. Not sure about any fiqh differences, though Barelvis and Deobandis are pretty similar (to me) in that regard anyway.

I really like Fethullah Gulen's teachings, from what I've heard of them. He seems to be doing a lot for Turkey.

Originally Posted by Revert

Extremism is the same regardless of the time so you can find a simple soloution by looking at the Prophets time. He lived by the Quran if we do the same and live up to the standard expected by Allah(swt) then extremism would not exist.

+1

[Revert]

Originally Posted by MuslimahDaTurkish

Oooo-Oooh really I dont think you got what i said, coz that has nothing to do with my statement. Who claimed the opposite?

You said

Originally Posted by MuslimahDaTurkish

Today's extremism is different than before already, u cant try to bring any simple answer from Prophet's time. Extremism is making something haraam to yourself which is not haraam in islam,thats what Prophet told us. And the answer lies within.

I responded

Originally Posted by Revert

Extremism is the same regardless of the time so you can find a simple soloution by looking at the Prophets time. He lived by the Quran if we do the same and live up to the standard expected by Allah(swt) then extremism would not exist.

Hope that helps

[Jamroll]

Interesting concept.

I'm curious though as to why Turks chose Pakistan to set their schools up in.

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

I'm curious though as to why Turks chose Pakistan to set their schools up in.

Pakistan and Turkey have a very very tight history bro.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

Pakistan and Turkey have a very very tight history bro.

I understand that, bro. I think it's admirable that educated Turks are coming to Pakistan to help educate their fellow Muslim brothers and sisters. I'm just wondering if these schools have taken into account there is quite a different culture in the two countries, and whether they've applied this in the way they approach their curriculum.

Some similarities between the two is that both are:

*Muslim countries
*Some similarities between language
*Nationalistic populations
*strong Ottoman influence in the Indian subcontinent

Some differences are that:

*Turkey is very secular, Pakistan is not
*Turkey is more Europe looking, Pakistan is firmly an Eastern country (whether that be Asia-Pacific, the Indian subcontinent, or the Middle East)
*From my cursory view, Pakistan is a much more conservative society than Turkey, and this is reflected in the way they practice their Islam, as well as the effects on wider society and culture as a whole.

I think there needs to be an appreciation of these differences and similarities, and an appropriate application of schools in light of these, rather than just importing Turkish ideas, that work in a Turkish context straight into Pakistan.

[ShahRukh]

Subcontinental Islam has not accepted (and neither will i'A) western colonialism whether it is in the form of education, culture, dress code, ethics, etc., and rightly so i believe. This goes for both deoband, brailvi, and even the ahle-hadith sects. The fact that they still view jeans, suit/tie, etc. as elements of western cultural hegemony. Whereas many Turks have succumbed to western imperialistic values by force after the destruction of the Caliphate, even many of their religious scholars are not free such influences...modern turk Imam's and scholars leading prayers without beards and in western dress are a reflection of that.


Not to mention...Turks are probably the most humble and well-mannered muslims I have ever met.

[MuslimahDaTurkish]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Interesting concept.

I'm curious though as to why Turks chose Pakistan to set their schools up in.

Those Turkish schools are there all around the world

[thejellymill]

Originally Posted by MuslimahDaTurkish

Those Turkish schools are there all around the world

I was just gonna say that. Jammie, I'm pretty sure it says it in the article