[Bruinrab]

Two points.

1. Jelly has clearly explained that her mother was not an "impermissible" woman. The person who insulted her family is an idiot. Regardless of the correctness of his ruling, he showed a total lack of adab.

2. Sh. Faraz Rabbani was raised in Canada. He speaks English perfectly well. However, I have to wonder if he has ever witnessed childbirth himself.

[sally]

Originally Posted by Haramoobobi

Neither should people comment would have never experienced womanly pangs and discomfort during her time of the month--where even then they are excused from salah.

it's really not so bad at all or a big deal for every single woman.

[sally]

Originally Posted by Bruinrab

Two points.

1. Jelly has clearly explained that her mother was not an "impermissible" woman. The person who insulted her family is an idiot. Regardless of the correctness of his ruling, he showed a total lack of adab.

2. Sh. Faraz Rabbani was raised in Canada. He speaks English perfectly well. However, I have to wonder if he has ever witnessed childbirth himself.

it is possible to perform prayer by motioning of the fingers. however the permissability for that is only in extreme scenarios..sickness, etc. not sure if it applies to childbirth.

anyway, it is also true that wudu is broken by the water breaking. so i'm a little confused about sheikh farazs' response. iA i'm going to submit that question right now to sunnipath.

[Bruinrab]

Some women may not suffer greatly during their periods, but not all of us are so lucky. If you are fortunate, be thankful that you don't suffer from cysts, fibroids, or periods so painful that you literally cannot sit up straight, let alone contemplate standing, for the first 24 hours. Don't minimize suffering that you've never known.

Alhamdulillah for ibuprofen.

[zakk]

Originally Posted by sally

it is possible to perform prayer by motioning of the fingers. however the permissability for that is only in extreme scenarios..sickness, etc. not sure if it applies to childbirth.

anyway, it is also true that wudu is broken by the water breaking. so i'm a little confused about sheikh farazs' response. iA i'm going to submit that question right now to sunnipath.

wudhu just breaks or one enters into the period of impurity?

let us know what sunnipath says.


i would think that praying by finger movement or lying down would be permissable in active labor.

again, failing to see why this would be a cause for calling someone stupid if the ruling is valid... not seeing where the offense lies. if it's fardh, it's fardh. again, not impossible. also consider the improbability that prayer would come in just as you were pushing the baby out. the nature of the ruling is to give a specific time when you do not have to pray anymore. It IS important to know.

If you are really completely unable to do anything at prayer time, then ishaAllah Allah will be merciful towards you. If you make an effort despite pain, inshaAllah, Allah will reward you amply, above the reward you are already earning.

Again, if the ruling is valid, protestations to the contrary will not diminish its validity. And a valid scholar does not just pull random rulings out of the air, h/she makes them to help you in your practice.

Also, not seeing how Faraz Rabbani being raised in Canada has anything to do with it, as women in other parts of the world experience pain in childbirth as well, maybe even more so due to lack of advances in pain management.

[sally]

yeah, my bad.. i meant the woman enters the period of impurity until whenever the bleeding stops

[Bruinrab]

Zakk,

I said the maulvi who told Jelly that she and her siblings were illegitimate needed a . I still stand by that statement.

In regards to Faraz Rabbani, I have great respect for him. That's why I mentioned that he was raised in Canada when it was implied that he was unfamiliar with the English language.

However, knowing the mechanics of childbirth, it seems like a great feat of mental gymnastics to say "well, once the water breaks, the woman has entered the period of impurity (implying that she cannot pray), but she can pray even until the baby is crowning". I understand that the ruling may serve to establish a "point of no return", but it doesn't seem to be especially useful in a practical setting.

[sally]

Originally Posted by Bruinrab

In regards to Faraz Rabbani, I have great respect for him. That's why I mentioned that he was raised in Canada when it was implied that he was unfamiliar with the English language.
.

if you're talking about my post, it was actually in reference to the link posted in the original post of this thread.

[Bruinrab]

Ah. Oops. But hey, I still think that guy was totally lacking in adab. That should exist regardless of language barriers.

[zakk]

yeah, i wasn't talking about jelly, since hers didn't make sense based on the fact that her mom was christian.


but the first post made no mention of the water breaking.. So it's possible that water breaking does not invalidate purity. Also, the people expressing the view that this ruling was "stupid" provided no alternate daleel, just that it was too hard to pray. Which it is not. it may be difficult but it isn't impossible. Which is why I am a bit stunned to see people calling rulings stupid without a valid alternate argument.

Also, I object to this whole thing that since some women find this ruling to be stupid, their stance should be accepted on the basis that they are women.

If you disagree with a ruling, you should find an alternate valid ruling to back yourself up, and not just make fun of the ruling. At least, that's what I think.

Despite not being fluent in English, most valid scholars put years of study and thought into their rulings. So it's not smart to just disrespect that based on conjecture. because a lot of times personal logic is completely fallible.

[Hanbali]

Allamah as-Six al-Baakistani (ra) said: "Zakk is the only sister with a brain on Islamica."

[Haramoobobi]

Originally Posted by zakk

yeah, i wasn't talking about jelly, since hers didn't make sense based on the fact that her mom was christian.


but the first post made no mention of the water breaking.. So it's possible that water breaking does not invalidate purity. Also, the people expressing the view that this ruling was "stupid" provided no alternate daleel, just that it was too hard to pray. Which it is not. it may be difficult but it isn't impossible. Which is why I am a bit stunned to see people calling rulings stupid without a valid alternate argument.

Also, I object to this whole thing that since some women find this ruling to be stupid, their stance should be accepted on the basis that they are women.

If you disagree with a ruling, you should find an alternate valid ruling to back yourself up, and not just make fun of the ruling. At least, that's what I think.

Despite not being fluent in English, most valid scholars put years of study and thought into their rulings. So it's not smart to just disrespect that based on conjecture. because a lot of times personal logic is completely fallible.

I find that rulings people find online published by a Shaykh they never heard of and then spreading it around is frightening. I know full well my knowledge doesn't compare to anyone that's been studying for years... but I feel online anyone can call themselves an Imam... I tried looking for an author of the article and I couldn't therefore I dismissed it.

But mashAllah you have a very valid point about da'leel

sorry about not providing it earlier, I vaguely remembered it and I just had to find it (this is one of the few websites I trust): Islam Question and Answer - When a pregnant woman feels contractions, should she stop praying, and does she have to makeup the missed prayers?

Question:
When does a woman in labour (for childbirth) stop performing the salah? Does she still perform the salah if she is having contractions but no fluid has come from her body yet?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

We put the following question to Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen, may Allaah preserve him:
If a woman whose pregnancy has reached full term passes blood and has pains, but she does not know whether these are the contractions that will lead to childbirth or contractions that will later ease off [“practice” contractions, also known as Braxton-Hicks contractions], should she pray or not?
He answered, may Allaah preserve him:
Of course, there are two things we may assume here:
The first is that the pregnancy will continue without contractions.
The second is that the apparent case is that these are contractions, so she should stop praying.
If this is what usually happens to her, and she may carry on having contractions for four or five days without giving birth, then in this case she should still pray.
Question:
If she acts upon the second assumption, then the contractions ease off, should we tell her to make up the prayers she has missed?
Answer:
It is preferable to make them up, because she took her decision on the basis of an assumption.
In summary, then:
If this woman usually has contractions for a number of days – more than two or three – then this is not nifaas and she should pray. If that is not what usually happens, then we assume that it is nifaas in the sense that she should stop praying. If she stops praying, then it turns out that it was not nifaas, then in this case we say that if she makes up the prayers she has missed, this is good, and if she does not make them up, there is nothing wrong with that because she acted on an assumption.
And Allâh knows best.


Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

Originally Posted by Haramoobobi

1 : If one is giving birth to a child but only a small portion of the child had appeared, then also it is Fard (obligatory) to offer Salat, provided she is conscious. To give up Salat is not proper. But if offering of Salat endangers the life of the child, then she is allowed to give up Salat. In the same way, if the mid-wife thinks that offering of Salat on her part may harm the child to be born, then she also cane give up the Salat. But all of them should offer compensatory Salt as soon as possible.

Perhaps it's my limited imagination but a woman giving birth and a even a small portion of a child sticking out (?) it is Fard to pray. That's giving birth right there.

As for people who say childbirth isn't hard:

The pains of labor drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She exclaimed: "Oh, if only I had died before this time and was something discarded and forgotten!" A voice called out to her from under her: "Do not grieve. Your Lord has placed a small stream at your feet. Shake the trunk of the palm toward you, and fresh, ripe dates will drop down to you. Eat and drink, and delight your eyes. If you should see anyone at all, just say: 'I have made a vow of abstinence to the All-Merciful, and [so] today I will not speak to any human being.'" (Surah Maryam: 23-26)

And May Allah (swt) forgive me if I thought I understood through ignorance and not true understandings from these readings.

[Haramoobobi]

AHHHHH SubhanAllah I JUST noticed sally's post about Sh. Faraz Rabbani. Sorry, I happened not to read the post. My sincerest apologies.

Obviously then this is a difference of madhabs.

[Jamroll]

What happened to this multi-tasking we keep hearing women are so good at, huh? Conveniently goes out of the window, eh? Call yourselves muti-taskers and can't even deliver a baby and do prayers at the same time. Pffft....excuses!!!