[Abu_Hind]

Originally Posted by Salika

Tafdhil in what sense? According to who? Aside from kufa' in certain instances, what "traditional" opinion says that Arabs have a general "tafdhil"?

Actually the way I've understood it, is that this tafdhil plays a major role in issues of kifa'ah, but 'Arabs fadhl in the sense that they were 'chosen'. Remember the hadith where Nabi 'alayhi salatu wa salam talked about the best of tribes and the best of families...


(I can't believe I'm saying this )

[Revert]

Originally Posted by Abu_Hind

Actually the way I've understood it, is that this tafdhil plays a major role in issues of kifa'ah, but 'Arabs fadhl in the sense that they were 'chosen'. Remember the hadith where Nabi 'alayhi salatu wa salam talked about the best of tribes and the best of families...


(I can't believe I'm saying this )

Like Jews back in the day? That makes no sense bro.

[Salika]

Originally Posted by Abu_Hind

Actually the way I've understood it, is that this tafdhil plays a major role in issues of kifa'ah, but 'Arabs fadhl in the sense that they were 'chosen'. Remember the hadith where Nabi 'alayhi salatu wa salam talked about the best of tribes and the best of families...


(I can't believe I'm saying this )

I'm not familiar with that hadith.

But I haven't heard a scholar say that Arabs are preferred over non-Arabs. Suitability is different than superiority. There is no extra merit in being or marrying an Arab.

I just felt like your comment was misleading and sweeping generalization when you said that "traditional" scholars hold that Arabs are preferred generally.

[Rambo]

i think its not the case of arabs being superior but may be the arabic language?

[Abu_Hind]

Originally Posted by Salika

I'm not familiar with that hadith.

But I haven't heard a scholar say that Arabs are preferred over non-Arabs. Suitability is different than superiority. There is no extra merit in being or marrying an Arab.

I just felt like your comment was misleading and sweeping generalization when you said that "traditional" scholars hold that Arabs are preferred generally.

First of all, by traditional I don't mean those scholars who have adopted the label "traditional" these days, but scholars from past.

Secondly, please see the discussion Here

[Salika]

Originally Posted by Abu_Hind

First of all, by traditional I don't mean those scholars who have adopted the label "traditional" these days, but scholars from past.

Secondly, please see the discussion Here

Regardless of who you meant (but perhaps you should have clarified), I still think your statement is unwarranted.

I can't really go through a long discussion on another forum but it seems that whatever those scholars meant, is that Arabs are preferred in the sense they were given certain traits such as the Arabic language (which is the language of the Qur'an) but to simply say Arabs have "tafdhil" I think is still very misleading. And I don't like the word "fadl" being translated into superior. I think favored is a better translation. But, it's not as though Arabs are going to have less trials, that a non-Arab can not be a ruler of an Arab, or that Arabs have an easier path to paradise.

That's all.

[Jaysh]

Originally Posted by Abu_Hind

First of all, by traditional I don't mean those scholars who have adopted the label "traditional" these days, but scholars from past.

Secondly, please see the discussion Here

Wa alaykum as-salam.

Bismillah.

The thread merely sought to establish what the majority opinion was. Which means that there was also a minority opinion. Imam al-Baqillani is one person who took this minority position. It is not a matter on which there is ijma.

I'm not yet ready to accept that it was the majority opinion, but all I am saying is that even if it was (and if they are correct in that), then so what? There is still a valid minority opinion. Salafis themselves take minority opinions all the time, such as the idea that the one who misses a prayer becomes a kaafir.

Fi Aman Allah

[Abu_Hind]

Originally Posted by Salika

Regardless of who you meant (but perhaps you should have clarified), I still think your statement is unwarranted.

I can't really go through a long discussion on another forum but it seems that whatever those scholars meant, is that Arabs are preferred in the sense they were given certain traits such as the Arabic language (which is the language of the Qur'an) but to simply say Arabs have "tafdhil" I think is still very misleading. And I don't like the word "fadl" being translated into superior. I think favored is a better translation. But, it's not as though Arabs are going to have less trials, that a non-Arab can not be a ruler of an Arab, or that Arabs have an easier path to paradise.

That's all.

Yeah actually I think a lot of confusion arises from the translation of the term. Also as far as arabs being 'preferred', I still am not sure if it is due to certain traits or because of the hadith I mentioned in question, or some other reasons (including these). Allahu a'alam.