[thejellymill]

Originally Posted by Variable

It was pretty weird though - is it a norm among Arabs to think that all professions are equal in terms of class?

OBVIOUSLY NOT. How many Indo-Pak/Bengali servants do Gulf Arabs beat up? How many Thais and Bengalis do they hire to do the dirty work in their countries. My parents lived in Dubai for 2 years before I was born and my dad (a Pakistani with a good job) was treated like crap in the office. My husband who has worked in the ME for over 2 years has dealt with arrogant, misogynistic Arabs and he finds Egyptians to be the worst. Arabs are as judgmental and stupid as the rest of humanity.

DUH!

I would really lik eto to start neg repping every person who continues to argue and post dumb things in this thread

[Variable]

Originally Posted by thejellymill

OBVIOUSLY NOT. How many Indo-Pak/Bengali servants do Gulf Arabs beat up? How many Thais and Bengalis do they hire to do the dirty work in their countries. My parents lived in Dubai for 2 years before I was born and my dad (a Pakistani with a good job) was treated like crap in the office. My husband who has worked in the ME for over 2 years has dealt with arrogant, misogynistic Arabs and he finds Egyptians to be the worst. Arabs are as judgmental and stupid as the rest of humanity.

DUH!

I would really lik eto to start neg repping every person who continues to argue and post dumb things in this thread

Dude, I was commenting on a statement made in that website... everything's cool.

[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by thejellymill

this made no sense to me... All the literature I have ever read explicitly says any slave's child is always born free. So whether she was a free woman who married a slave or not, or if she was a slave herself, her children will always be born free according to Islam.

afaik the child of a slave woman and a free man is born free, but not vice versa (?). perhaps someone can clarify

Originally Posted by thejellymill

anyway this thread is a waste of time and a load of bullcrap. Funny how some newbie troll can so come in here and cause such horrible long-winded arguments just by posting a stupid one-liner. Everybody knows Arabs thought there were superior, many still do. But the Ottomans were also arrogant, they subjugated the Arabs and the non-Muslims towards the end of their rule... Arabs were second class citizens. It's wrong but it's part of humanity...that is why we have something called Qur'an but most people dont listen (just like Qur'an says they wont)... so I have an idea. Why dont you all shut the hell up and stop arguing about who's right and who's wrong when we all clearly know every race has perpetrated acts of violence against another race at some point in history. Some of you have no freaking life and drift from thread to thread arguing everything point by point and wasting your breath on the same people you argued with in the last thread and yet you continue when you KNOW from experience they will never change their opinions! There's more to life than being clever and winning arguments on a freaking online discussion board.[/color]

that was deep yo

(what long-winded arguments?)

[ChotooMotoo]

NEG THEM ALL

Oh crap.....

[LEGALEAGLE]

Originally Posted by thejellymill

[color="RoyalBlue"]this made no sense to me... All the literature I have ever read explicitly says any slave's child is always born free. So whether she was a free woman who married a slave or not, or if she was a slave herself, her children will always be born free according to Islam.

I completely agree with jellymill that explanation makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and just confirms why I'd never follow the Shafi madhab.

Btw Haddad misquoted the dialogue between Hisham and Ata because Ata is noted as saying 'and if I had dared I would have told him that the chief ulema of so and so were non-Arabs as well'

[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by LEGALEAGLE

I completely agree with jellymill that explanation makes absolutely no sense whatsoever and just confirms why I'd never follow the Shafi madhab.

Hanafis hold the same opinion as Shafis in this matter. See Haddad's explanation of Imam Shafi (RA)'s perspective. You seem to be disrespecting the Shafi madhab; countless great ulema were Shafis..

[Abdul_Karim]

Originally Posted by Good_ol_JR

So tell me abd of Saud are you saying the Prophet SAW did wrong by allowing Bilal RA, Salman Farsi, and other non-Arabs to marry Arab women? If this is a majority opinion why is it hardly ever followed.

I'm not a Salafi. That link was not Salafi. That link was on the Hanafi fiqh, and represents the beliefs of most traditional Muslims everywhere. Most of the Salafis reject kafa'ah (which is why you see so many black Salafi men married to Sa'udi women), as they reject most of traditional fiqh.

In essence, you have called Imam al-Az'am Abu Hanifah an "abd of Saud". I fear for your soul.

I'm just defending traditional fiqh, the kind the Salafis hate. That makes you more like a Salafi than me, since you hate the Hanafi fiqh.

BTW, I am no aalim, so I have no idea how Imam al-Az'am Abu Hanifah, Imam ash-Shafi'i, and Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal and their sucessors figured out this "kafa'ah" thing. I just know it's in all the old fiqh books, like "al-Hedaya" and "Reliance of the Traveller" .

[Jamroll]

Everyone knows Pakistanis are the Master Race!!!

[thejellymill]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Everyone knows Pakistanis are the Master Race!!!

Too bad for you because the only master race is the race of the mixed-breeds!

[LEGALEAGLE]

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

Hanafis hold the same opinion as Shafis in this matter. See Haddad's explanation of Imam Shafi (RA)'s perspective. You seem to be disrespecting the Shafi madhab; countless great ulema were Shafis..

Actually thats the opinion of *some* hanafi's not all. Most of the deobandi ulema of the day disagree with it.

The opinion seems to be held most strongly by those claiming to be 'sayyids'.

There was a LONG post on this before the Fall of Islamica

Ah found it.

Check

'Mullah Abdul Hamid Nu'mani, Masla-i Kufw Aur Isha'at-i Islam, New Delhi: Qazi Publications, 2002, for a complete refutation of kafaat by a deobandi scholar

[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by LEGALEAGLE

Actually thats the opinion of *some* hanafi's not all. Most of the deobandi ulema of the day disagree with it.

What's your source for that? I'm pretty sure every Deobandi aalim learns about kafaah from Qudoori/Hidaya.

I don't agree with it, though. It directly contradicts the Prophet (SAW)'s own words in his very last sermon. GF Haddad's explanation makes the most sense by far.

[oFoShOuKnO]

Originally Posted by antisalafi

Salafi Imam: We Must BELIEVE Arabs are “Master Race” « A Singular Voice

Do you agree with the Salafi imam that blacks are the master race? I thought there was no concept of such in Islam.

I guess I was wrong all along. No wonder why many Muslims discard their ethnic and cultural identity to be more Arab.

I am surprised you didn't label him as a "Salafi Priest"

[jinnzaman]

Kafaah is well established in fiqh and in terms of hadeeths regarding the "superiority" of the Arabs, its established by particular hadeeth as well as certain rational proofs.

InshaAllah, lets stop applying Eurocentric Enlightenment era concepts of equality and applying them to the deen of Islam.

And the attacks on the Hanafi and Shafi'i madhab are uncalled for. Reliance of the Traveller is a very well established text and the concept of kafaah isn't limited to just the Shafi'i madhab.

[TrentReznor858]

All the ass kissing muslims do when it comes to arabs makes me laugh

Every race thinks it is gods gift to mankind, nothing new or special.

We are all made the same way, the amount of melatonin in ones skin does not make anyone better or more special than the other.

[Jamroll]

The only advantage, if we can call it that, that Arabs have over the non-Arabs, is that Allah's message to mankind is in their tongue, and that Allah's Messenger (saw) to mankind was from among their people. But these are blessings from Allah, this is nothing to get arrogant or superior about.