question about Salafis?

[Rambo]

in the wikepeda article on salafis it says : "The Salafi methodology prohibits uprisings or revolts against the leaders, rulers, or government even if those in power are seen as corrupt by some"

Salafism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

is this reason why they have so much respect for the corrupt Saudi Government?

what is the reason behind this?

[Rambo]

so does anyone know the reason?

[freedomlover]

Revolution leads to civil war, bloodshed, fighting against other muslims and fitna.
The shia's revolt against corrupt rulers, as for the sunni tradition you are meant to change yourself first and make duaa for the rulers that they are guided.
Also maybe Allah placed them over you for a reason.
"Muslim" countries these days, you find lots of bribery, corruption, fortune tellers, people who do magic, alcohol, extreme opression of women, people who ask saints for help and do shirk etc

[Rambo]

But the problem with this is it leads people to do nothing, they become lazy, they dont speak up or can't speak up. They just sit there and do nothing, this is the state of almost all muslims today.

[Hanbali]

You are a laughable fool. Why don't you go learn deen before you speak, boy?

You're such an idiot that you're attacking yourself. ALL Sunnis believe the same thing about rebelling against authority. Go learn your faith and BE SILENT till then.

Here is a fatwa from SunniPath, which is a non-Salafi Sufi site:

SunniPath.com said

Imam al-Tahawi (Allah have mercy on him) states in his famous al-Aqida al-Tahawiyya:

"We do not recognize uprising against our Imam or those in charge of our affairs even if they are unjust, nor do we wish evil on them, nor do we withdraw from following them. We hold that obedience to them is part of obedience to Allah, The Glorified, and is therefore obligatory as long as they do not order us to commit sins. We pray for their guidance and their wrongdoings to be pardoned". (al-Aqida al-Tahawiyya with the Sharh of al-Ghunaymi, P. 110-111).

Of course you are probably such a big fool that you don't even know who Imam at-Tahawi [ra] was, nor would you appreciate the importance of Aqeedah at-Tahawiyya.

Go learn who the Khawaarij were.

To clarify, there is no problem in not knowing something. I am not mocking you for your lack of knowledge. I am mocking you for your making sweeping statements DESPITE that lack of knowledge.

is this reason why they have so much respect for the corrupt Saudi Government?

Not all Salafis respect the Saudi government. You are talking nonsense. There are Salafis who HATE the Saudi government. Ever heard of a guy named Osama bin Ladin?

As for me, I know that there is both good and bad from the Saudi state. I do appreciate the fact that they spend millions of dollars on dawah, that they accommodate the scholars and Islamic universities, and that they encourage an Islamic environment inside their country. I believe that the proper methodology towards them is of giving them naseeha (sincere advice) instead of rebelling against them, as is the Sunnah of the Prophet [s].

[Hanbali]

You know what, I apologize for my tone, brother Rambo. Forgive me.

May Allah [swt] increase you and I in knowledge and unite our hearts on Siratul Mustaqeem.

[AbuAlAbbas]

how are you going to call Ossama bin laden a salafi?

[Jamroll]

Osama Bin Laden is more Qutbi than anything else.

[Rambo]

Hanabali your a really disrespectful person, i only asked a simple question why salafis respect saudi government? but yet again you choose the cursing way, and bin laden is not a salafi even i know that.

[AbuAlAbbas]

his aqeedah is qutbi/khariji, and one of the major scholars of the salafi dawah in our generation has called him a kaffir.

[Hanbali]

Jamroll said

Osama Bin Laden is more Qutbi than anything else.

Bro, there is no such thing as "Qutbi" or "Qutbi Aqeedah".

Ash-Shaheed Sayyid Qutb [ra] was a hero of Islam, and the term Qutbi is merely used as a derogatory label by SPUBs (the S.S. extremists) with their ridiculously long PDFs.

Qutb [ra] was not a scholar, but he was a brave Muslim. His status is like Malcolm X (ra). Yes, we know that both of them made serious mistakes, but this does not mean that we deny them their high status of respect.

Bro, the S.S. just add the word al-Qutbi next to every Salafi they disagree with. So I'd be Hanbali al-Qutbi to them, even though I don't follow Sayyid Qutb [ra] !

Rambo said

Hanabali your a really disrespectful person, i only asked a simple question why salafis respect saudi government?

Bro, I never claimed to be a respectful person.

bin laden is not a salafi even i know that.

Bin Ladin would be identified by a neutral third party as "Salafi", since his aqeedah when it comes to Sifat and other things is in line with Salafis. Yet, of course I would condemn him as a Khariji myself, but that doesn't mean that OBL would say that he himself is a Khariji. No, he and the people who love him claim to be Salafi.

What you need to realize, Mr. Rambo Khan, is that Salafis are all over the spectrum. You have Salafis who love the Saudi government and are Murjia, defending it no MATTER WHAT (such as SPUBS / SS) and Salafis who have become Khawaarij and who hate the Saudi government and declare takfeer on it (such as Al-Qaeda and other Jihadist extremists) and then you have the moderate Salafis like myself who are in the middle of those two extreme positions.

Yes, *I* would say that the Murjia and the Khawaarij are not really Salafis, but they themselves would never identify themselves by saying "hi, I'm fulan and I'm one of the murjia" or "hi, I'm fulan and I'm one of the khawaarij." No, they think they are the "real" Salafis.

[Abdul_Karim]

AbuAlAbbas said

how are you going to call Ossama bin laden a salafi?

Mainly, because he is. How is what he's doing any different from Muhammad ibn Abdul-Wahhab and Muhammad ibn Sa'ud's revolt against the Ottomans?

[Hanbali]

Oh crap, this thread is gonna be a crazy Salafi infight. lol

In the red corner, we have Abu al-Abbas, representing the Madhkalis. In the blue corner, we have Abdul Kareem representing the Salafi-Jihadis, and in the gold corner, we have Hanbali representing the Surooris. To your corners gentlemen! FIGHT!

I think I'm going to have close this thread.

Thread closed.

[AbuAlAbbas]

Abdul_Karim said

Mainly, because he is. How is what he's doing any different from Muhammad ibn Abdul-Wahhab and Muhammad ibn Sa'ud's revolt against the Ottomans?

Najd was not part of the ottoman empire, so there wasnt a revolt against the ottomans. If you think obl is a salafi then you have no idea about what a salafi is.

and hanbali, you can throw words around like madkhali and other words of that nature, and that simply shows your ignorance in regards to this subject. It funny how people like the surooris and qutbis disrespect shaykh rabee, yet hold bin baz and bin uthaymeen in high regards when they gave tazkiyah of the shaykh and warned about the aqeedah of qutb and his likes. And when bin uthaymeen was asked about sayed qutb, he refered people to the works of rabee on this issue.

following the quran and sunnah from the understanding of the salaf defines a salafi. So how can someone who follows part of the sunnah and goes against other parts of it be considered a salafi?

in regards to salman al awda, you are mistaken about what you think bin baz and bin uthaymeen's opinion of him would be today. Although he did correct some of his aqeedah issues, his aqeedah is still full of mistakes. Abdulaziz bin rayis al-rayis (student of bin baz, bin uthaymeen, saleh al fawzan) had a lecture on this two years ago which can be found on his website.

[Hanbali]

AbuAlAbbas said

Najd was not part of the ottoman empire, so there wasnt a revolt against the ottomans.

Agreed.

and hanbali, you can throw words around like madkhali

Brother, I was just joking.

It funny how people like the surooris and qutbis disrespect shaykh rabee,

Brother, I do not disrespect Shaykh Rabee al-Madhkali (ra).

yet hold bin baz and bin uthaymeen in high regards when they gave tazkiyah of the shaykh and warned about the aqeedah of qutb and his likes.

Brother, we acknowledge the mistakes of Ash-Shaheed Sayyid Qutb [ra], yet we do not deny his high status as a brave Muslim either.

You mentioned Shaykh Ibn Baz [ra]. In fact, Shaykh Ibn Baz [ra] personally interceded on the behalf of Qutb [ra], asking that he not be executed.

Shaykh al-Albani [ra] praised Qutb's books such as "In the Shade of Qur'an" and "Milestones". After hearing about Shaykh Rabee's book, he regarded it as "jaahil" and advised him to abandon the project and not wipe out his good deeds.

Shaykh Ibn Jibreen [ra] passed the following fatwa about Sayyid Qutb [ra]:

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
Office of the Presidency of Islamic Research and Legal
Verdicts

Question:

Some youth call Shaykh Sayyid Qutb a heretic and prohibit the reading of his books, and they say a similar statement regarding Hasan al-Banna, as they also say regarding some of the scholars that they are Khawarij. Their argument is that [they do this] in order to 'expose the errors [of these men] to the people,'. even though [these youth] are until now [only] students [of knowledge]. I hope for a response so that doubt may be removed from us and others, [and] so that this [phenomenon] will not spread.

Response:

All praise belongs to Allah alone. To proceed: It is impermissible to [unjustly] call the Muslims heretics or wicked as is evidenced by the statement of the Prophet SAW "Whoever says to his brother 'O enemy of Allah,' and he is not such but that it returns back to him." While in [another] hadith 'Whoever calls a Muslim an infidel it returns back to one of them.' While in another hadith: "A man passed by another while he was doing a sin and he said to him, 'By Allah, Allah will not forgive you.' So [Allah] said: 'Who is he who can pass judgment on my behalf that I will not forgive so and so, I have forgiven him and have nullified your deeds.'"

With this I say, Sayyid Qutb and Hasan al-Banna are among the scholars of the Muslims and among the people of da'wa. Allah has brought benefit by them and through them He has guided many people. They both have efforts [for Islam] which should not be denied. For this reason Shaikh Abdul-Aziz ibn Baz interceded on behalf of Sayyid Qutb when the order for his execution was given. [Ibn Baz] was gentle in his intercession, but President Gamal [Abdel Nasser] did not accept [Ibn Baz's] intercession, may Allah send upon him [i.e. Abdel Nasser] what he deserves.

When both men [i.e Hasan al-Banna & Sayyid Qutb] were killed, each was referred
to as a martyr, as each was killed unjustly. This is borne witness to by those close [to them] as well as by the general public. As it was widely spread in the papers and books without anyone ever objecting. Moreover, the scholars have received their books [with acceptance]. No one has attacked them for more than the [last] twenty years.

If some [heresy proceeded] from them, then [these mistakes] are
similar to an-Nawawi, as-Suyuti, Ibn al-Jawzi, Ibn 'Atiyah, al-Khatabi, al-Qastalani and the likes of many of them. I have read what Shaikh Rabi al-Madkhali has written in his refutation of Sayyid Qutb and I found that he has placed statements where they do not exist. For this reason Shaikh Bakr Abu Zaid, may Allah perserve him, refuted him. Likewise, [al-Madkhali's] unjust attacks of Shaikh 'Abdur-Rahman ['Abdul-Khaaliq] and his [twisting 'Abdur-Rahman 'Abdul-Khaaliq's words] in order to find errors which would make ['Abdur-Rahman 'Abdul-Khaaliq appear] misguided, even though [Shaikh Rabi] befriended him for a lengthy period of time and he never found any such errors [in the past].

And the eye of pleasure sees every fault insignificant,

But the eye of hatred always finds fault.

Dictated by
Abdullah ibn Abdur-Rahman ibn Jibreen
26/2/1417 AH