The Agenda behind some irreligious people's support for Islamic Evolutionism

[Ugur]

Seyyid Hussein Nasr got his BS in physics from MIT and proceeded to work on the history of science.

"[An] 'ism' of great danger to Islam... is Darwinism," said Seyyed Hossein Nasr, one of the leading Muslim thinkers of our time, in his book Islam and the Plight of Modern Man. He is certainly right. Darwinism is indeed a dangerous idea, and the reason for that is its seemingly scientific affirmation of the naturalist philosophy - the belief that nature is all there is and that life on Earth, including humans, is the product of the blind forces of nature. If one accepts that philosophy, then one will have little reason to believe in Allah, the Lord and Creator of everything.

That's why Nasr thinks that accepting the Darwinian evolution theory would be to "surrender Islam" to modern atheism. And he warns fellow Muslims against this risk as follows:

Those who think they are rendering a service to Islam by incorporating evolutionary ideas, as currently understood, into Islamic thought are, in fact, tumbling into a most dangerous pitfall and are surrendering Islam to one of modern man's most insidious pseudo-dogmas, one created in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries to enable men to forget God. (213)

The White Path: Join the Scientific Dissent From Darwinism

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And brother Harun Yahya (Adnan Oktar) the Muslim intellectual makes his case very well too:

Materialists Support "Religious Evolutionism" for Tactical Reasons

Indeed, evolutions know that such a "reconciliation" will be damaging to religion, and are thus trying to force certain Muslims to take that step. In order to gain the support of believers and to weaken their intellectual struggle against the theory of evolution, evolutionists are trying a different method, that of covertly supporting the idea of "evolutionary creation." Although they themselves do not believe in God, but make a divinity out of chance and are totally opposed to the truth of creation, they remain silent in the face of the idea that God created living things by means of evolution, and generally even encourage the idea, since they think that this will accelerate the acceptance of their theories.

Yet this is only a tactical move. The aim is to eliminate the objections of the devout and to impose the theory of evolution on all of society. Following the dissemination of the theory of evolution in this way, the vague interpretation of "religious evolutionism" will be done away with, to be replaced by the materialism which represents the essence of the theory of evolution. Muslims must take great care not to be taken in by this tactic and not to be a tool of this cunning strategy.

Harun Yahya .NET - The Case Against Islamic Evolutionism

[ChotooMotoo]

I'm sorry, why is this an aqeedah issue?

How does science make you a kaafir?

How evolution is a threat to Islam. You're going to have to spell it out for me.

[Ugur]

ChotooMotoo said

I'm sorry, why is this an aqeedah issue?

How does science make you a kaafir?

How evolution is a threat to Islam. You're going to have to spell it out for me.

Your question shows that you have not even read the articles or the extracts from them. What a pity.

[ChotooMotoo]

Ugur said

Your question shows that you have not even read the articles or the extracts from them. What a pity.

This is the religion and spirituality, you should post articles from Islamic scholars here. That's what I'm asking for, articles from real, trained Islamic Scholars. Thanks.

So far the only thing I've been able to find is that, since all things are possible by the will of Allah (swt), then it's not impossible to think that he created species by means of Evolution. Believing such certianly doesn't invalidate ones faith. On the issue of man, the oppinion is different because the Quran specifically mentions that Man is a special creation of Allah (swt). That's all I can find on the issue.

[Khairan]

Meh. This is more of the same arguments we've been hearing -- nothing revolutionary here. The take home message: Muslims are so weak in their faith and understanding of religion that we can't handle intellectual challenges to our way of thought.


Nonsense. "Darwinism" isn't a threat to our religion, it's our own lack of exploration that's the threat. Rather than teaching people to be afraid of evolution as an idea, teach them the nature of Islam.

This is a pretty poor argument for eschewing evolution. The proper (and ONLY) argument is a very simple one -- if you believe in Islam, and you also then believe that Islam teaches man was not evolved but rather was Created, than no amount of scientific theory will dissuade you. Why is this hard? Why, rather than promoting faith and common sense, are we peddling fear?

[Ugur]

This is the religion and spirituality, you should post articles from Islamic scholars here.

That's what I'm doing.

That's what I'm asking for, articles from real, trained Islamic Scholars. Thanks.

Seyyid Hussein Nasr, whom I quoted above, is an Islam expert in a US university. He is both a scientist and an Islamic studies professor. There could be no one more qualified to talk about this subject than him.

Harun Yahya is a well-informed Muslim intellectual who makes compelling arguments. He is also worthy of quote.

So far the only thing I've been able to find is that, since all things are possible by the will of Allah (swt), then it's not impossible to think that he created species by means of Evolution. Believing such certianly doesn't invalidate ones faith. On the issue of man, the oppinion is different because the Quran specifically mentions that Man is a special creation of Allah (swt). That's all I can find on the issue.

It may not be impossible but it is not the divine truth that you can force other people to accept either. Therefore alternative views should be taught in schools as legitimate too. The holes that emerge every day in the theory should be taught. See my thread about the Homo Habilis myth that was debunked last year for instance. People must not be taught that creation is "only religious dogma that serious scientists do not consider." This does undermine and has always undermined their faith in God.

There are numerous verses in the Qur'an which say that nature is full of the signs of Allah. They imply or maybe explicitly state that we must find God through scientific research and contemplation about nature. Then I don't understand how as a Muslim you believe that adding God to science is dishonest. It's quite the opposite from the Quranic and Islamic viewpoint.

30:22 And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colours: verily in that are Signs for those who know.

The verse ends as "for those who know", not for those who "suppose" (that God exists) but for those who "know" that. In our creed, God's existence is objective reality and it is invalid to claim that we must exclude Him from the universe and its scientific research to be "honest". Quite the contrary, since His existence is obvious, it is dishonest to think that the universe can exist without Him.

Regarding the creation of a "bird" through sudden creation and not evolution by God, there is this clear verse, in which God speaks to Jesus:

5:110 ... Thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave,

Is there any other verse which clearly states that unlike what happened here, God created other things through gradual evolution, especially through random mutations? No, there is not.

[AliFazel]

I'd say the great danger to Darwinism is Islam.

The religion of truth, logical reasoning, intellectual discourse, and most compatible to all the problems of facing mankind.

Why else would they try to attack Islam in this manner - if they did not see it as a threat to their deceptive ideology, and the grip of their Shaitans on this world.

[ChotooMotoo]

Ugur, it's laughable to say that Harun Yahya is an Islamic scholar. He has no religious training.

Does Islam Refute Evolution?

Title:
Does Islam Refute Evolution?

Question:

What is Islam's view on evolution? How do we explain the fossil bones of our ancestors? Does that mean that the prophet Adam also looked like them?


Answer:

In your question, if 'evolution' implies that man is actually an evolved form of a certain other creature, then Islam does not affirm such a standpoint. According to the Qur'an, Adam (pbuh) - the first man - was a direct creation of God, as a man. The Qur'an does not support that Adam evolved from another species.

However, it may be of some interest to note that in Al-Sajadah 32: 7 - 9, the Qur'an has referred to three different stages involved in the creation of man in such words that a slightly varied version of 'evolution' may be derived from it. The Qur'an says:

He, Who perfected everything that He created - He started the creation of man from clay then he inculcated in him [i.e. man] the potential to reproduce through a drop of humble fluid then He embellished and fashioned him in due proportion; and breathed into him of His spirit and [thereby] developed in you [the abilities of] listening, vision and feeling.

The above verses clearly tell us that in the beginning man was created from clay. The words 'creation from clay', obviously, do not necessitate that God created an effigy of man from clay and then gave life to it. It may, as we know, imply that in the beginning man came into existence out of the earth [the mud or the clay etc. of the earth]. In other words, God inculcated in earth - mixed with water - the potential to produce life. Over centuries or even millennia, the life-bearing potential of the earth materialized and a species quite similar to, yet somewhat different from man was born[1]. This was the first stage in the creation of man, as is evidenced by the words: "He started the creation of man from clay".

In the second stage, the potential of reproducing life - of bearing offspring - through sexual contact between the male and the female genders was inculcated in this species. This stage is mentioned in the words: "then he inculcated in him the potential to reproduce through a drop of humble fluid".

In the third stage, the species was physically fashioned into proportion and with that God also breathed into it of His spirit, which developed in it the abilities of listening, vision and feeling[2]. The words: "then He embellished and fashioned him in due proportion; and breathed into him of His spirit and [thereby] developed in you [the abilities of] listening, vision and feeling", point to this final stage in the development of the human species.

It may be interpreted from the above explanation that it was only the first pair of near-humans - i.e. Adam and Eve - who went through the three stages explained above. That is Adam's (and Eve's) creation was initiated from clay - that is they were produced through the life-generation potential inculcated in the earth. Later on, the potential of reproduction through sexual contact was inculcated in Adam (and Eve). In the third stage, Adam (as well as Eve) was physically fashioned into due proportion and God breathed into them of His spirit and thereby developed the higher sapiential abilities in them.

However, contrary to the above interpretation, another theory that may be developed on the basis of the information given in the referred verses may be as follows[3]:

Man's creation, in the first stage, was initiated by the production of a like species from the earth. In this stage, a number of near-human pairs - male and female - were produced directly from the earth.

In the second stage, the near-human pairs were inculcated with the ability of reproducing life through sexual interaction between the male and the female gender of the species.

In the third stage, one of the directly produced pairs (as in the first stage)[4] - i.e. Adam and Eve - were physically fashioned into due proportion and were inculcated with the advanced human abilities. It was at this stage that Adam and Eve became complete humans.

Over subsequent centuries, the other directly produced pairs (in the first stage) and their offspring became extinct. The only pair that survived, through its offspring was that of Adam and Eve.

The whole human race that populates the planet is the offspring of the one directly produced pair, which was physically fashioned into due proportion and inculcated with the advanced human faculties.

In view of the information provided by the Qur'an and the human knowledge that has developed over time, one may ascribe to any explanation that seems correct to him. However, if the latter theory is accepted to be correct, it also helps explain the existence of the slightly different fossil bones. It seems that these bones are of the near-humans that, in contrast to Adam and Eve and their subsequent generations, were not physically fashioned into proportion or inculcated with the advanced human faculties and which became extinct over time.

It should be stressed here that the above is a development of a somewhat detailed scenario, on the basis of some vague indications of the Qur'an and the general knowledge that has become available to man. The scenario may or may not be completely accurate.

26th March 2000


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[1] The last part of the referred verses clearly informs us that it was at a later stage that the species was physically fashioned into proportion and inculcated with advanced human abilities.

[2] It may be noted that it was not merely the faculties of 'hearing' and 'sight', which, like other living things, the species seems to have possessed before this stage as well. On the contrary, at this stage the abilities inculcated in man were that of 'listening', 'vision' and 'feelings', which is a stage ahead of mere 'hearing' and 'sight' and is probably possessed, at such an advanced level, only by man.

[3] The theory is primarily developed by my teacher Javed Ahmed Ghamidi.

[4] As the Qur'an at another place (Aal Imraan 3: 59) tells us that Adam was directly produced from clay (earth) and was not born to a father and a mother.

[Ugur]

I don't know the guy who wrote this piece of speculation. What I know is that, Ustad Fethullah Gulen, the foremost Islamic scholar in Turkey, rejects the theory of evolution and wrote a book about it. The views of Ustad Gulen, Seyyid Hussein Nasr and Harun Yahya make more sense than stuff like this.

[Ugur]

ChotooMotoo said

Ugur, it's laughable to say that Harun Yahya is an Islamic scholar. He has no religious training.

I said he is a Muslim "intellectual". Please don't misread dearest sisterest. He makes lots of his points quite ably and convincingly. We should look at quality more than labels.

What about Ustad Fethullah Gulen then? He is a madrasah-educated Islamic scholar and he is against incorporating evolutionary ideas into Islam in definite fashion too.

[ChotooMotoo]

How could Islam, which was divinely revealed, be threated by Darwinism, a man made Philosophy (not a science)?

Ugur - don't put limits on what Allah (swt) can or cannot do. When you say "no, it has to be this way" that's what you're doing. It doesn't have to be any way. Allah (swt) created the Universe. Nowhere in Islamic texts that I've read is a specific mechanism mentioned. I'm not a kaafir if I believe that Allah (swt) in his infinte wisdom and power could very easily have made life evolve. Every species is still a creation of Allah (swt), it's just a matter of how it was done.

Why do you refuse to acknowledge that darwinism and modern evolutionary theory are two different thing? One is a philosophy, one is science.

I agree with AliFazel and Khairan.

[MossadConspiracy]

The real question is whether mujahideen should carry out martyrdom operations against dinosaur bones

[ChotooMotoo]

Ugur said

I said he is a Muslim "intellectual". Please don't misread dearest sisterest. He makes lots of his points quite ably and convincingly. We should look at quality more than labels.

What about Ustad Fethullah Gulen then? He is a madrasah-educated Islamic scholar and he is against incorporating evolutionary ideas into Islam in definite fashion too.

Ustad Fethullah Gulen has his oppinions, other Islamic scholars have theirs. What I posed was from a student of an Islamic scholar in Pakistan. There are also articles written by others that pretty well state that evolution is fine, so long as you acknowledge the creator in all things, and recoginze that Man is a special creation of Allah (swt).

There is a difference between incorporating evolutionary ideas into Islam (such as saying Islam should evolve) and recognizing that Allah (swt) is all powerful, evolution of life, especially animal life, is not impossible.

[Ugur]

ChotooMotoo said

How could Islam, which was divinely revealed, be threated by Darwinism, a man made Philosophy (not a science)?

Ugur - don't put limits on what Allah (swt) can or cannot do. When you say "no, it has to be this way" that's what you're doing. It doesn't have to be any way. Allah (swt) created the Universe. Nowhere in Islamic texts that I've read is a specific mechanism mentioned. I'm not a kaafir if I believe that Allah (swt) in his infinte wisdom and power could very easily have made life evolve. Every species is still a creation of Allah (swt), it's just a matter of how it was done.

Why do you refuse to acknowledge that darwinism and modern evolutionary theory are two different thing? One is a philosophy, one is science.

I agree with AliFazel and Khairan.

I have already explained these. Please go back and read again.

Also it is not me who is putting limits on God. It is you. You claim that God created all living things through evolution. But I look for other possibilities. He does not have to create through evolution. As in the example of the above-mentioned miracle of Jesus, he can suddenly make a bird figure into a living bird. The Qur'an makes this clear. God is not bound by laws of nature or evolutionary processes.

[ChotooMotoo]

Ugur said

I have already explained these. Please go back and read again.

Also it is not me who is putting limits on God. It is you. You claim that God created all living things through evolution. But I look for other possibilities. He does not have to create through evolution. As in the example of the above-mentioned miracle of Jesus, he can suddenly make a bird figure into a living bird. The Qur'an makes this clear. God is not bound by laws of nature or evolutionary processes.

Except that that's not what you've been doing. The last week you've been attacking or Imaan for accepting that Allah (swt) may well have created live through an evolutionary process. What I've said, and been saying over and over and over to the point that it seems you've put your fingers in your ears and are wilfully ignoring me is: "Believe what you want, but don't call it science" and that ID is not science. I've provided ample evidence why ID is not science, which you haven't refuted in the least.

As it stands, the Scientific evidence supports Evolution much more strongly then Inteligent Design. One of the fundamental precepts of Inteligent Design is that due to irreducible complexity, there is no possible mechanism for evolution, and every single animal species is created perfect by the creator. Of course you can't prove this, becuase the Creator leaves no evidence behind to point to the act of creation, or even the attributes himself. Islam doesn't support this either. One of the fundamental precepts of Islam is that the evidence of Allah (swt) is plain to see, and the attributes of Allah (swt) are obvious. In this way ID is both not science, and againt Islam as well.

Unlike Christianity, the Quran does not specify a mechanism of creation. Allah (swt) only has to say Be and it IS. There is no mention of How. Now, if I accept what I see with my eyes, and say "well, it seems most probably that Evolution is the How" that's fine. There is no disconect between science and religion on this matter, as well there shouldn't be.

THe problem comes when religion starts to legislate science, and is then shown to be false. That is when people really start to lose faith in religion, as evidenced by the centuries of christian decline in the western world since the Catholic Church started excommunicating scientists who showed that the earth centered universe is false. I don't want to see Islam go down that path, and so far it hasn't (except in Turkey apparently).