[Hard2Hit]

Salaams,

Originally Posted by bihari

for which they have no basis to derive this ruling

I said shayukh, which means ulema/scholars. And I didn't say that everyone should do it.

Stop trying to act know-it-all, and more importantly, stop trying to demean righteous scholars. When you can deduce things by studying bits and pieces of pre-translated text, and hold firm onto it, how can you falsify the opinion of various ulema who know arabic and the right context in which ayahs and hadiths were revealed and who have dedicated their lives for study of islamic scripture.

You can believe in whatever you want, just dont try to shove it down others throats.

Thanks.

[bihari]

Originally Posted by Hard2Hit

Salaams,



I said shayukh, which means ulema/scholars. And I didn't say that everyone should do it.

Stop trying to act know-it-all, and more importantly, stop trying to demean righteous scholars. When you can deduce things by studying bits and pieces of pre-translated text, and hold firm onto it, how can you falsify the opinion of various ulema who know arabic and the right context in which ayahs and hadiths were revealed and who have dedicated their lives for study of islamic scripture.

You can believe in whatever you want, just dont try to shove it down others throats.

Thanks.

im not demeaning them, they are human beings, and prone to fault as we are.

the issue is blindly following them, without consulting their sources. the quran addresses the common person, not only a scholar.

considering the partition between genders was only required for the prophet's wives, what basis do they have?

and things i have studied are from knowledgeable people, so its not like i am saying these things out of the blue

[Hard2Hit]

Salaams

How many links and fatawa backed by daleel from credible shayukh, including Shah Nuh Keller, do you want me to bust up yours?

Or would you google them yourself?

Thanks!

[bihari]

Originally Posted by Hard2Hit

Salaams

How many links and fatawa backed by daleel from credible shayukh, including Shah Nuh Keller, do you want me to bust up yours?

Or would you google them yourself?

Thanks!

umm i fail to realize when this became a competition

and i dont really care because i can find many reliable sources that disagree with many scholars..

and scholars disagree amongst themselves as well....ask a hanafi scholar about eating non zabiha meat they will say its not allowed, but as a shafi'i or hanbali or maliki and they will say it is permissible

so there is no absolutity in scholars

[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by bihari

for which they have no basis to derive this ruling

You're saying the scholars of the Ahnaaf have no basis for which they derive their rulings?!

You come across like a silly little kid favoring deviant pop-Muslim arguments that you find on Islamicity over 1400 years of scholarship by learned men & women.

All sources are not equal.

[bihari]

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

You're saying the scholars of the Ahnaaf have no basis for which they derive their rulings?!

You come across like a silly little kid favoring deviant pop-Muslim arguments that you find on Islamicity over 1400 years of scholarship by learned men & women.

All sources are not equal.

i was referring to the ruling on niqab

[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by bihari

i was referring to the ruling on niqab

Yes. Just because you don't know what their daleel is, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[bihari]

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

Yes. Just because you don't know what their daleel is, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

ive read many fatwas about niqab, they quote quran ayats (which were partial, funny how the 'prophets wives' part was cut off) and again, dont have much else to back their claims

[Hard2Hit]

Salaams,

Originally Posted by bihari

and scholars disagree amongst themselves as well....ask a hanafi scholar about eating non zabiha meat they will say its not allowed, but as a shafi'i or hanbali or maliki and they will say it is permissible

so there is no absolutity in scholars

Why are you jumping bandwagons?! I just said that many ahnaaf scholars deem niqab as wajib. Those scholars include people who are very learned, like mufti taqi usmani rahimahullah. Whats in it thats making you so defensive, given the fact that my original post was just sharing some info and not ordering the reader to comply?

And you are doing nothing but belitteling scholars who have correct neeyah. Many Shafii scholars also deem niqab to be highly recommended if not compulsory or close to being compulsory. They have given their lives to islamic teachings and you, just coming out of your teens, and having spent like 43 man hours on the subject, can so confidently say that they are using islamic scripture out of context ?!

What makes you such a genius ??

[bihari]

Originally Posted by Hard2Hit

Salaams,



Why are you jumping bandwagons?! I just said that many ahnaaf scholars deem niqab as wajib. Those scholars include people who are very learned, like mufti taqi usmani rahimahullah. Whats in it thats making you so defensive, given the fact that my original post was just sharing some info and not ordering the reader to comply?

And you are doing nothing but belitteling scholars who have correct neeyah. Many Shafii scholars also deem niqab to be highly recommended if not compulsory or close to being compulsory. They have given their lives to islamic teachings and you, just coming out of your teens, and having spent like 43 man hours on the subject, can so confidently say that they are using islamic scripture out of context ?!

What makes you such a genius ??

well

i agree, many scholars have a good intention, but it doesnt mean they are always right

as for out of context. i keep telling you guys that i read a fatwa online about niqab, and in there the scholar cited an ayat as so:

'...speak to them from behind a curtain' and he had the ayat number after it

i looked it up in a number of different translations, and it was actually 'when speaking to the prophet's wives, speak to them from behind a curtain'

hence i say that they are using it out of context, and i am sure the scholar knew what he was doing when he cited it.

and regarding the credentials of scholars:

Muhammad Asad states in his tafsir that the hijab is not even a requirement, and that modesty in clothing is relative to the prevailing customs of the time. And hence niqab is out of the picture. Background info on Muhammad Asad, though he has no formal training as a scholar, he converted to Islam, learned arabic from the beduins, whose arabic is closer to the quranic arabic than the modern arabic. Furthermore, he translated the entire Qur'an with commentary, and translated the ENTIRE sahih bukhari. is that not a reputible source?

and btw, i spent far more than 43 hours on the subject; and you should know that there is no room for personal attacks/comments in a scholarly discussion

as for muhammad asad's tafsir regarding the hijab, it is on another forum, i will post the link here once my post comes online

[Rida]

jazakAllah for compiling the list of the ahaadith you've come across. Now what if i were to tell you that the list you posted isn't even 1-5% of the total hasan and sahih ahaadith relating to the topic of the beard?
You see scholars of our deen who issue rulings, take into account all or most of the traditions related from our Prophet (sallAllahu alaihi wasallam) as well as the companions, tabi eens and rulings of the scholars of the past before making a decision. If you are still comfortable with your own ruling based on the few you've come across, then all the best to you.

May Allah (azza wajal) guide us to the path he favors.
ameen

Wassalaam

[Hard2Hit]

Salaams,

1]
Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said, 'The Ihraam of a female is
her face (keep the face uncovered) and the Ihraam of a male is her head
(keep the head uncovered).'

Why would He (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) ask 'all' women not to cover their
face during hajj, if common women weren't already covering their faces during His [saw]
Time?


2]
"Hadhrat Umar (Radiallah anhu) said to Hadhrat Sauda(Ra) "that I have RECOGNISED you)". It's pretty obvious that we RECOGNISE people by looking at their FACES NOT HAIR. Hence, verse of covering from head to toe revealed and women started coverin' themselves and thus by covering from head to toe Hadhrat Umar(Radiallahu anhu) did not RECOGNISE the ladies in the future.Am i correct? I sure am!!!!!!! Therefore NIQAB IS WAJIB!!!.. What's the point of coverin' HAIR non-mahram can still RECOGNISE YOU..makes sense, doesn't it?"
Ref: Niqab Jus for Rehman-ur-Rahim - Niqab's Wajib (NO EXCEPTIONS) - Blognow


3]
Shaikh ibn Salih al Uthaimeen.: The Clear Path :: The Veil (Niqaab) is Obligatory with Detailed Proofs


4]
Shah Nuh Keller on Niqab: Indigo Jo Blogs: Shaikh Nuh Keller on niqab (updated)


5]
Harvard Professor Defends Niqab: Global Connections . Veiling and Feminism | PBS


Eat that first and come back for more inshaAllah.

[ChotooMotoo]

I've found that people who are against hijab and niqab and say that they have no basis in Islam have emotional/cultural problems with hijab and niqab, and no real islamic understanding of the issue.

It's pretty plain and clear to me why hijab is fard, and why niqab is ruled anywhere from fard to a strongly confirmed sunnah.