The Vatican's new seven modern mortal sins

ChotooMotoo · #16 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zam

Then where is the line between worship and seeking intercession?

Seems like there is this debate across different religions...

I grew up in a predominantly Catholic town. It is a very devisive issue. To Catholics, from their viewpoint intercession is nothing like worship. To other Protestants, it's not so clear cut. That's one of the reasons why there is so much animosity between Protestants and Catholics, to the point that some Protestants don't consider Catholics to be real Christians.

Zam · #17 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

I grew up in a predominantly Catholic town. It is a very devisive issue. To Catholics, from their viewpoint intercession is nothing like worship. To other Protestants, it's not so clear cut. That's one of the reasons why there is so much animosity between Protestants and Catholics, to the point that some Protestants don't consider Catholics to be real Christians.

Yes very similar to Baralewi/Sufi/Shia - Deobandi/Salafi debates.

But to my knowledge Catholics go as far as carving statues of their intercessors and displaying them, and taking them with them for protection. It seems to me what started as a concept of intercession is turning into idolatry...

ChotooMotoo · #18 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zam

Yes very similar to Baralewi/Sufi/Shia - Deobandi/Salafi debates.

But to my knowledge Catholics go as far as carving statues of their intercessors and displaying them, and taking them with them for protection. It seems to me what started as a concept of intercession is turning into idolatry...

I can see why you would think that. There is no prohibition in Christianity against making statues or drawing pictures. Just about every Christian home I've been to, Catholic or Protestant, has at least a painting/picture of Jesus (as) on the wall, and even the Protestant homes often have statues of Jesus (as). From their point of view, they certainly aren't worsishiping the statues.

Abdul_Karim · #19 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

The way I understand it, they believe that people are not pure enough to talk to God directly, cuz we're a bunch of sinners and all that. So, they pray to the Virgin Mary, who conveys their prayers to God.

So... Barelvis and Rafidhis are Catholics?

Revert · #20 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

I can see why you would think that. There is no prohibition in Christianity against making statues or drawing pictures. Just about every Christian home I've been to, Catholic or Protestant, has at least a painting/picture of Jesus (as) on the wall, and even the Protestant homes often have statues of Jesus (as). From their point of view, they certainly aren't worsishiping the statues.

Quote:

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20:4-6)

This is the prohibition against making idols and such.

Variable · #21 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revert

This is the prohibition against making idols and such.

I think that's another example of OT no longer being binding.

Revert · #22 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Variable

I think that's another example of OT no longer being binding.

Its the basis of the second commandment so I don't see how that works, educate me Mr V!

Variable · #23 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revert

Its the basis of the second commandment so I don't see how that works, educate me Mr V!

Meh, I'm just going by what I see. I really don't have any answer. I just know Christians don't really care, and I don't think they've ever cared.

sally · #24 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zam

Yes very similar to Baralewi/Sufi/Shia - Deobandi/Salafi debates.

i cant believe some barelvis dont make dua to Allah

pretty sad

ChotooMotoo · #25 (**permalink**) 03-13-2008, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revert

This is the prohibition against making idols and such.

They aren't making images of God, and they don't think they are worshiping them. Also, you have to remember that Christianity now, and for centuries (before the advent of Islam) has used the Old Testament pretty selectively. They kinda follow it, but mostly don't. If they did, they would still follow the eye for an eye concept of justice, and wouldn't eat pork. The reasons for that are complex, but really simplistically boil down to, Paul told them that the Old Testament applies to Jews, and the New Testament applies to Christians, so the Old Testament is more for historical context and general information.

I'm not saying what they do is right. Obviously I'm not a Christian anymore, am I? I'm just trying to tell you why they do some of the things they do.