[divine_quran]

Hi Folks

Before the advent of Islam slavery prevailed all over the world. To men in those days, it seemed perfectly normal for the strong and wealthy to have slaves whom they had captured in war or purchased in the market. The Greeks were the leaders of thought in the ancient world. No Greek thinker had ever raised his voice against the institution of slavery. The Quran proclaimed the equality of all men in the sight of God. It struck at the root of slavery by recognizing the moral worth of man as man. However, there were, at the time of the advent of Islam, numerous slaves, both men and women, in Arabia as elsewhere in the world. The Arab economy was based on slavery. To abolish it at one stroke was impracticable. It could not be done without plunging the whole society into confusion. Yet, in every conceivable way, the Quran discouraged slavery and improved the lot of the slaves. The Muslims were urged to be kind and considerate to their slaves. They were told that to emancipate a slave was a meritorious act. They could atone for some of their offences by setting a slave free. Thus the number of slaves was gradually reduced and society was made less dependent on slave labour. The words "whom your right hand possessed" occurring in the Quran are in the past tense and refer to those who had already been enslaved. When they were emancipated through a gradual process, slavery died a natural death. The main source of slaves-men and women-was prisoners in war. The Quran laid down that they should be set free either for a ransom or as a favour (47 : 4). The door for future slavery was thus closed by the Quran for ever. Whatever happened in subsequent history, was the responsibility of the Muslims and not of the Quran.

Islam brought about a revolution in human relations placing master and slave, man and woman, on a footing of equality before God. In Arabia, as in most other countries, man had been accustomed to look on women just for the gratification of his lust. Marriage was a device to prevent men from quarrelling for the possession of desirable women. The Quran raised the status of women in society and made them equal partners of men in the enterprise of living.

Thanks
Nawaz
Religion Islam

[Variable]

Originally Posted by divine_quran

When they were emancipated through a gradual process, slavery died a natural death. The main source of slaves-men and women-was prisoners in war. The Quran laid down that they should be set free either for a ransom or as a favour (47 : 4). The door for future slavery was thus closed by the Quran for ever. Whatever happened in subsequent history, was the responsibility of the Muslims and not of the Quran.

This is my favourite topic to rag on about, but just for the record that's a load of bullocks.

[Ugur]

I don't completely agree with that view, but your arrogance and hence your face is the real load of bullocks. In the judgement day, you will pay for it unless somehow God puts in your heart some open-mindedness and the capability to accept the clear truth. Contrary to what you want to dogmatically believe, we humans have an owner who will do perfect justice in the judgment day and punish the arrogant enemies of His Religion and His Obvious Truth.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Ugur

In the judgement day, you will pay for it unless somehow

Bring it.

Contrary to what you want to dogmatically believe, we humans have an owner who will do perfect justice in the judgment day and punish the arrogant enemies of His Religion and His Obvious Truth.

...and that coming from you. This forum never ceases to astound me.

[LEGALEAGLE]

Originally Posted by Variable

This is my favourite topic to rag on about, but just for the record that's a load of bullocks.

No...No...No ! We don't use bullocks...we use camels.....

Actually variable we did bring a revolution in social relations...we brought the concept that a slave could be the ruler...

and your last comment to brother Ugur was uncalled for..

[Variable]

Originally Posted by LEGALEAGLE

Actually variable we did bring a revolution in social relations...we brought the concept that a slave could be the ruler...

I'm sure that Islam brought a lot of revolutionary ideas about slavery. But it didn't end it, and I don't think it was supposed to have.

and your last comment to brother Ugur was uncalled for..

Considering many of his comments I think it was perfectly called for.

[Ugur]

Your arrogant comments are what is astounding, Variable. Dogmatism is not belief in God; it is your obstinate refusal to be open-minded enough to see the obvious truth. The signs of the truth of monotheism and Islam are obvious ( called mubeen, or "aayaatin mubayyinaat" in the Qur'an). You and your like can't see the obvious truth because Allah has sealed your hearts.

Qur'an: 39:31 In the end will ye (all), on the Day of Judgment, settle your disputes in the presence of your Lord.

40:35 "(Such) as dispute about the Signs of Allah, without any authority that hath reached them, grievous and odious (is such conduct) in the sight of Allah and of the Believers. Thus doth Allah, seal up every heart - of arrogant and obstinate Transgressors."

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Ugur

Your arrogant comments are what is astounding, Variable. Dogmatism is not belief in God; it is your obstinate refusal to be open-minded enough to see the obvious truth. The signs of the truth of monotheism and Islam are obvious ( called mubeen, or "aayaatin mubayyinaat" in the Qur'an). You and your like can't see the obvious truth because Allah has sealed your hearts.

I rest my case.

[Ugur]

Originally Posted by Variable

I rest my case.

So do I. In your life or after it, you will eventually learn that your modern western mindset is not close at all to the objective reality as opposed to what you confidently believe. And the ultimate reality can be known: The myth that God cannot be known just because he cannot be observed is false, is a false philosophical argument.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Ugur

So do I. In your life or after it, you will eventually learn that your modern western mindset is not close at all to the objective reality as opposed to what you confidently believe. And the ultimate reality can be known: The myth that God cannot be known just because he cannot be observed is false, is a false philosophical argument.

And you'll realize that you don't have a monopoly what is or isn't 'objective' reality. In any case I believe nothing like that. thanks.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by Variable

This is my favourite topic to rag on about, but just for the record that's a load of bullocks.

Which part? There were a lot of statements in the bit you quoted.

[Ugur]

Originally Posted by Variable

And you'll realize that you don't have a monopoly what is or isn't 'objective' reality. In any case I believe nothing like that. thanks.

Yes, I don't. Allah does and he is the obvious reality.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Which part? There were a lot of statements in the bit you quoted.

The point that the Quran ended slavery.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by Variable

The point that the Quran ended slavery.

Do you mean the Qur'an in its statements didn't set about conditions that would effectively end slavery?

Or, do you mean the Qur'an didn't end slavery, in the same way that the Qur'an didn't bring world peace?

If it's the first answer, I think you're mistaken. The statements in the Qur'an effectively meant that the input into the slave industry was eradicated, except through POWs. And even then, there was a very strong emphasis on freeing them as soon as possible. And whilst the "system" (slave trade and ownership) was clearing itself of the "stock" (i.e. the slaves), the commandments were to treat them as if they were members of one's own family e.g. eating together from the same plate, clothing them as well as one could afford, allowing them to have a job to earn their own money, and so on.

I do accept that Muslims engaged in the slave trade, even up until the 19th century (perhaps even now, I don't know) but this was in spite of the Qur'an not because of it.

If it's the second answer, then fair enough - a book cannot end harmful things by itself, it just provides guidance for the people to learn from it.

[Foxhole]

Originally Posted by Ugur

Your arrogant comments are what is astounding, Variable. Dogmatism is not belief in God; it is your obstinate refusal to be open-minded enough to see the obvious truth. The signs of the truth of monotheism and Islam are obvious ( called mubeen, or "aayaatin mubayyinaat" in the Qur'an). You and your like can't see the obvious truth because Allah has sealed your hearts.

Qur'an: 39:31 In the end will ye (all), on the Day of Judgment, settle your disputes in the presence of your Lord.

40:35 "(Such) as dispute about the Signs of Allah, without any authority that hath reached them, grievous and odious (is such conduct) in the sight of Allah and of the Believers. Thus doth Allah, seal up every heart - of arrogant and obstinate Transgressors."

Ladies and gentlemen, the literary stylings of Ugur Orwell.

Hey, thanks a lot, Big Fella.