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03-07-2008, 08:40 PM
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Re: Muslim unity on common issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOUSUFofSD
why would they visit someone dead? to pray for them? or to ask the dead to pray for themselves?
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Make du'ah for the dead, hope the dead will know they came and pray for them, pray at the gravesite, etc
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03-07-2008, 08:41 PM
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Re: Muslim unity on common issues.
I can't remember the exact hadith, but it goes something like the Prophet (saw) said "Don't journey to any place (for the purpose of pilgrimage) except three" and then he mentioned the Haram Sharif in Mecca, the Prophet's Mosque in Medina, and Al-Quds (Jerusalem).
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03-07-2008, 08:42 PM
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Re: Muslim unity on common issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamroll
I can't remember the exact hadith, but it goes something like the Prophet (saw) said "Don't journey to any place (for the purpose of pilgrimage) except three" and then he mentioned the Haram Sharif in Mecca, the Prophet's Mosque in Medina, and Al-Quds (Jerusalem).
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Tell them that! I can understand those 3, but anything else is an addition to the religion.
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Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry,their passions a quotation - Oscar Wilde.
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness - Sophocles.
A dream is the answer to a question we do not know how to ask - Fox Mulder.
As it is the characteristic of great wits to say much in few words, so small wits seem to have the gift of speaking much and saying nothing - La Rochefoucauld.
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03-07-2008, 08:45 PM
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Re: Muslim unity on common issues.
If im not mistaken im pretty sure there's hadith about the prophet warning against praying at graves and such, i will have to try and find them though.
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03-07-2008, 08:49 PM
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Re: Muslim unity on common issues.
Also another thing I remember reading a while back...again I don't remember the exact hadith right now, (maybe someone could help me out if they know it) but he (saw) was very concerned that his followers do not make any graves the place of worship, especially his own, to the extent that someone asked "can I not come to your grave even to make du'ah and send salams upon you?". And the Prophet replied "send your salam from wherever you may be, it will reach me".
Essentially, he was saying don't make a special journey just to come to my grave; your prayers and good wishes will reach me wherever you might be on the Earth. Now if he's left instructions to us not to make special journeys to his grave, this is the Messenger of God we are talking about, then surely it's not a good idea to make special journeys to anyone else's, no matter who they might be.
(I'm going to try and find the reference for those hadiths, inshallah, and post them).
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03-07-2008, 08:56 PM
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Re: Muslim unity on common issues.
from Kitaab At-Tawheed, Chapter: 18
It is authentically reported on the authority of `Aa`ishah that Um Salamah (May Allah be pleased with them both) told the Messenger of Allah  about a church she had seen in Abyssinia in which there were pictures. The Prophet said: "Those people, when a righteous member of their group or a pious slave (of Allah swt ) dies, they build a mosque over his grave and make images therein; by so doing, they combine two evils: (i) The evil of the graves and (ii) the evil of images." 1
`Aa`ishah tells us that Um Salamah informed her that she had told the Prophet about a church in Abyssinia which she saw when she migrated there with her husband in which there were images. The Prophet then explained to her the significance of what she had seen: That the Christians, when a pious man from among them died, would build an edifice over his grave and place his image in it in order to remember him and be inspired by his piety; and he added that these people were the worst of people in the sight of Allah because they had combined two sins: (i) The sin of building over graves which may lead eventually to the worship of their occupants; and (ii) the sin of making images of living creatures which may also lead to worship of those images when the original purpose of their making has been forgotten.
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03-07-2008, 11:06 PM
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Re: Muslim unity on common issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliFazel
--- We have been told that we have different Qur’an - But to date no person has been able to produces that mysterious Qur’an.
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Ive heard this but not from a scholarly source.You might not have another Quran, but you have ahadith in your books which claim that the Quran of today is not the same as the one during the time of the Prophet saws.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliFazel
--- We have been told that we hate the arch angel Gibrael for delivering the prophet hood to Prophet Muhammad in stead of Ali - BUT- to-date no person has been able to produce any evidence from our literature.
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Wherever I've read this, I've also read that not all shia belief this, but there have been shias whove claimed this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliFazel
--- They say we are grave worshipers - They forget that to be a grave worshiper one has to accept the person in the grave as deity. There no such belief amongst us.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliFazel
Well if you give them attributes which only belong to Allah, then you are making them gods. When Allah says "they made their priests and rabbis into lords besides Allah", this was because "they made haram that which Allah had made halal, and made halal that which Allah made haram. "
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AliFazel
--- We have been told that we are idol worshipers - BUT Those who accuse us of this could not produce one Idol as evidence.
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YouTube - imam hussien
YouTube - Pagan Shia worshiping Statue Imam Hussien Iraq Mushriq
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliFazel
--- They even accuse us of having killed the great grandson of prophet (SAW)
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only accusation ive heard is, that shias themselves invited hussayn ra to their town, but then refused to help him.
the thing is when people quote from shia books here, and say shias believe this and that.. you reply with answers like "these hadith are weak"... i mean just the fact that you have hadith in books and scholars amongst you that believe stuff like "the prophet saws was assassinated by his wifes aisha and hafsa, who were ordered by their fathers abu bakr and umar" subhan'allah. dont forget all the saying about cursing the sahaba, and the level of the imams. and how do ayatollahs respond to these? "we should not curse them because it causes disunity with our sunni brethren" .
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03-08-2008, 05:17 AM
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Re: Muslim unity on common issues.
have to remind again, sorry we can't unite with shias, snip they don't hate Muslims worldwide as shias do. O yes, we can unite with Hindus too on common issues, they also don't hate Muslims worldwide, maybe they do, I have to check 
Last edited by MoonStar : 03-08-2008 at 01:31 PM.
Reason: takfiring is not permitted
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03-08-2008, 05:23 AM
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Re: Muslim unity on common issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IbnAbdullah
have to remind again, sorry we can't unite with shias, snip Chinese are better than shias, they are also enemies of Muslims but only native Muslims, they don't hate Muslims worldwide as shias do. O yes, we can unite with Hindus too on common issues, they also don't hate Muslims worldwide, maybe they do, I have to check |
too late, i already united with shias
you shouldve told me this earlier... thanks alot
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Last edited by MoonStar : 03-08-2008 at 07:30 AM.
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03-08-2008, 08:23 AM
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Re: Muslim unity on common issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentReznor858
Muslims in general make pilgrimages to graves....I would say visiting these graves is a form of worship.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YOUSUFofSD
what graves are you talking about? Prophet Mohammed's grave?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentReznor858
That is one example, but there are various imams and scholars that people from all countries visit. Shias go to where Hassan and Hussein were killed, etc;
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YOUSUFofSD
why would they visit someone dead? to pray for them? or to ask the dead to pray for themselves?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentReznor858
Make du'ah for the dead, hope the dead will know they came and pray for them, pray at the gravesite, etc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamroll
I can't remember the exact hadith, but it goes something like the Prophet (saw) said "Don't journey to any place (for the purpose of pilgrimage) except three" and then he mentioned the Haram Sharif in Mecca, the Prophet's Mosque in Medina, and Al-Quds (Jerusalem).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamroll
Also another thing I remember reading a while back...again I don't remember the exact hadith right now, (maybe someone could help me out if they know it) but he (saw) was very concerned that his followers do not make any graves the place of worship, especially his own, to the extent that someone asked "can I not come to your grave even to make du'ah and send salams upon you?". And the Prophet replied "send your salam from wherever you may be, it will reach me".
Essentially, he was saying don't make a special journey just to come to my grave; your prayers and good wishes will reach me wherever you might be on the Earth. Now if he's left instructions to us not to make special journeys to his grave, this is the Messenger of God we are talking about, then surely it's not a good idea to make special journeys to anyone else's, no matter who they might be.
(I'm going to try and find the reference for those hadiths, inshallah, and post them).
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When the holy Prophet (saw) was passing Abwaa on the way to Hudaibiya, he stopped at the grave of his mother. He arranged it and then he wept. Seeing him weep, the other Muslims also wept.
This incident of the weeping of the holy prophet(saw) on the grave of his mother, and the weeping of his companions is mentioned in all books of hadith.
Tabaqaat ibne saad !:116
Sunan Nasai, Kitabul Janaiz.
Sunan abi Dawood, Kitabul Janaiz.
The Messenger of Allah (SWAS) said: "One who performs the hajj and visits my grave after I have passed away, is like one who has visited me in my life time."
Sunan e Kabeer of Baihaqi 5:246
Sunan Darqutni 2:278
Al Ittihaafuz Sadaatul Muttaqeem of Al Zubaidii 4:416
Kanzul Ummal 5:70
Majmauz Zawaed 4:2
Dure Manthur of suyuti 1:237
Al Mojamul Kabeer 12:407
Taylasi has narrated fron Umar that he said:
“I heard the Messenger of Allah (saw) saying : I will be a witness and intercessor for the one who visit my grave, or visit me
Musnad of Tayalasi (did 204AH)
Kanzul Ummal 20:161
Mukhtasar Tarikhe Dimasq 2:406
Al Mataalibul Aahya of Ibne Hajr pg 1254
Durre Manthur 1:237
Al Mojamul Kabeer of Tibrani 12:417
Last edited by AliFazel : 03-08-2008 at 08:50 AM.
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03-08-2008, 10:21 AM
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Re: Muslim unity on common issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliFazel
When the holy Prophet (saw) was passing Abwaa on the way to Hudaibiya, he stopped at the grave of his mother. He arranged it and then he wept. Seeing him weep, the other Muslims also wept.
This incident of the weeping of the holy prophet(saw) on the grave of his mother, and the weeping of his companions is mentioned in all books of hadith.
Tabaqaat ibne saad !:116
Sunan Nasai, Kitabul Janaiz.
Sunan abi Dawood, Kitabul Janaiz.
The Messenger of Allah (SWAS) said: "One who performs the hajj and visits my grave after I have passed away, is like one who has visited me in my life time."
Sunan e Kabeer of Baihaqi 5:246
Sunan Darqutni 2:278
Al Ittihaafuz Sadaatul Muttaqeem of Al Zubaidii 4:416
Kanzul Ummal 5:70
Majmauz Zawaed 4:2
Dure Manthur of suyuti 1:237
Al Mojamul Kabeer 12:407
Taylasi has narrated fron Umar that he said:
“I heard the Messenger of Allah (saw) saying : I will be a witness and intercessor for the one who visit my grave, or visit me
Musnad of Tayalasi (did 204AH)
Kanzul Ummal 20:161
Mukhtasar Tarikhe Dimasq 2:406
Al Mataalibul Aahya of Ibne Hajr pg 1254
Durre Manthur 1:237
Al Mojamul Kabeer of Tibrani 12:417
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That's about visiting the grave of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w, not about worshipping the grave or making the statues (idols) or pictures of the Prophet for intercession.
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03-08-2008, 10:22 AM
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Re: Muslim unity on common issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamroll
I can't remember the exact hadith, but it goes something like the Prophet (saw) said "Don't journey to any place (for the purpose of pilgrimage) except three" and then he mentioned the Haram Sharif in Mecca, the Prophet's Mosque in Medina, and Al-Quds (Jerusalem).
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I've read that Hadith. |
03-08-2008, 10:35 AM
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Re: Muslim unity on common issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliFazel
When the holy Prophet (saw) was passing Abwaa on the way to Hudaibiya, he stopped at the grave of his mother. He arranged it and then he wept. Seeing him weep, the other Muslims also wept.
This incident of the weeping of the holy prophet(saw) on the grave of his mother, and the weeping of his companions is mentioned in all books of hadith.
Tabaqaat ibne saad !:116
Sunan Nasai, Kitabul Janaiz.
Sunan abi Dawood, Kitabul Janaiz.
The Messenger of Allah (SWAS) said: "One who performs the hajj and visits my grave after I have passed away, is like one who has visited me in my life time."
Sunan e Kabeer of Baihaqi 5:246
Sunan Darqutni 2:278
Al Ittihaafuz Sadaatul Muttaqeem of Al Zubaidii 4:416
Kanzul Ummal 5:70
Majmauz Zawaed 4:2
Dure Manthur of suyuti 1:237
Al Mojamul Kabeer 12:407
Taylasi has narrated fron Umar that he said:
“I heard the Messenger of Allah (saw) saying : I will be a witness and intercessor for the one who visit my grave, or visit me
Musnad of Tayalasi (did 204AH)
Kanzul Ummal 20:161
Mukhtasar Tarikhe Dimasq 2:406
Al Mataalibul Aahya of Ibne Hajr pg 1254
Durre Manthur 1:237
Al Mojamul Kabeer of Tibrani 12:417
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All questionable hadith. It is stupid and ignorant to fabricate hadith, especially when it is to condone idol and character worship. The prophet would never say something like this.
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Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry,their passions a quotation - Oscar Wilde.
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness - Sophocles.
A dream is the answer to a question we do not know how to ask - Fox Mulder.
As it is the characteristic of great wits to say much in few words, so small wits seem to have the gift of speaking much and saying nothing - La Rochefoucauld.
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03-08-2008, 12:07 PM
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