[Khairan]

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

Khairan, twelver Shi`as say you Ismailis are kaafirs!

Okay, but how does that change the point of my post?

[Revert]

Originally Posted by TrentReznor858

No one has mentioned racism as one of the factors keeping muslim unity a distant dream. In San Diego there are different mosques for different races. It is never explicitly mentioned, but I find that Arabs in particular have a particular distaste for people who arent their specific racial background.

Thats the same here in NJ. There are different Mosques for Turks, Alabanians, Desis, all with Khutbahs delivered in their native languages.

I personally think that everyone is racist.

Originally Posted by IbnAbdullah

Suicide attacks are the best remedy for Jewish and American terrorists, rockets don't work, what you say?

I say you've never seen anyone seriously hurt, especially by weapons.

You and Salahaldeen are purposely offensive and haven't really added anything of merit to this website, you keep coming with your same old tired anti shia rhetoric, which is frankly quite juvinile.

[Salahadeen]

Originally Posted by Khairan

Okay, but how does that change the point of my post?

You referred to us as Takfeeris or Talafis...don't remember which...so I was just showing you that the Shi`as themselves do takfeer of the other Shi`a groups! So the issue that the Shi`as have contention with is not Takfeer--since they do it to themselves--but rather when Sunnis do it to their particular group.

As for your claim that "only God has the right" ...., that's nonsense. Hadrat Abu Bakr (ra) fought the apostates, whose apostasy was proven simply by them denying the zakat. Ali (ra) put to death certain people who had become apostates due to their extreme views. So it is incorrect to say that human beings cannot do takfeer.

[Salahadeen]

Originally Posted by Revert

You and Salahaldeen are purposely offensive and haven't really added anything of merit to this website, you keep coming with your same old tired anti shia rhetoric, which is frankly quite juvinile.

Dear brother, I can only speak for myself, but every single post of mine which has been about Shi'ism has only been in response to a provocative statement made by a Shi`a. I've never initiated anything myself.

As for responding to Shi`a rhetoric, then this is a must, in order to end the doubts that enter people's hearts when they whisper into the hearts of man.

[rahat]

Originally Posted by IbnAbdullah

We can't unite with those who join kuffar against us, as they did in Afganistan and Iraq and elsewhere.

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You would rather unite with the Jews that are literally burning Palestinians alive (all Sunni btw) despite the orders of the Quran to the contrary.

[/snipped by mods]

[rahat]

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

Dear brother, I can only speak for myself, but every single post of mine which has been about Shi'ism has only been in response to a provocative statement made by a Shi`a. I've never initiated anything myself.

As for responding to Shi`a rhetoric, then this is a must, in order to end the doubts that enter people's hearts when they whisper into the hearts of man.

What about your rhetoric? Jews are literally announcing on TV that they're killing Palestinians and that the Pals deserve it - and all you can focus on is some magical unproven "Shia dynasty of evil".

[/snipped by mods]

PS I would rather spend my lifes work working with Khairan than have any of one of my deeds associated with a disgusting dhaalim like yourself on the day of Qiyamat.

[Salahadeen]

Originally Posted by rahat

What about your rhetoric? Jews are literally announcing on TV that they're killing Palestinians and that the Pals deserve it - and all you can focus on is some magical unproven "Shia dynasty of evil".

Wahabism is a cancer to Islam. Nothing else. Inshallah Allah will destroy this cancer swiftly and in totality.

PS I would rather spend my lifes work working with Khairan than have any of one of my deeds associated with a disgusting dhaalim like yourself on the day of Qiyamat.

Dhaalim? Wow, that's harsh. Ouch.

[Khairan]

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

You referred to us as Takfeeris or Talafis...don't remember which...so I was just showing you that the Shi`as themselves do takfeer of the other Shi`a groups! So the issue that the Shi`as have contention with is not Takfeer--since they do it to themselves--but rather when Sunnis do it to their particular group.

Salaams,

Once again, I don't understand what this has to do with my post. You seem to have missed the point of my pointing out the takfir, which is to say that someone who has a polemical agenda of disparaging another group is not a more reliable source of that groups beliefs than a practicing member of that group. That's like saying Anne Coulter is a more trustworthy person to learn about Islam from than Hamza Yusuf.

How you would extrapolate from my post that I as a shia perform takfir and therefore I don't have a problem with anyone except sunnis committing takfir puzzles me.

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

As for your claim that "only God has the right" ...., that's nonsense. Hadrat Abu Bakr (ra) fought the apostates, whose apostasy was proven simply by them denying the zakat. Ali (ra) put to death certain people who had become apostates due to their extreme views. So it is incorrect to say that human beings cannot do takfeer.

I do not believe it is correct to interpret any of these instances as people being executed for apostasy. The Qur'an, for one, never mentions death as an appropriate penalty for apostates. I think the weight of historical evidence shows that the people who we describe as apostates or heretics contemporaneous with the first Muslims were killed because they committed war or treason against the Islamic state, not because they were deemed "non-Muslim."

[Salahadeen]

Khairan, do you not have a problem when Rahat does this:

Originally Posted by rahat

May Allah curse you.

Inshallah you will suffer eternally.

He is invoking Allah and sending curses down upon other Muslims. I hope you know what a curse is......it's very harsh, on the same level as doing takfeer.

Rahat always complains about 'Takfeeris' but in reality he is himself a 'laanati', a man who just does laanat all the time...on whose lips is nothing but the words 'laanat' and 'May Allah curse you'.....

Originally Posted by Khairan

How you would extrapolate from my post that I as a shia perform takfir and therefore I don't have a problem with anyone except sunnis committing takfir puzzles me.

I didn't say you, Khairan. I said "Shi`as", by which I meant twelvers, not you. You came to the defense of twelvers, so I responded in that manner.

the first Muslims were killed because they committed war or treason against the Islamic state, not because they were deemed "non-Muslim."

Go read a history book.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

Dear brother, I can only speak for myself, but every single post of mine which has been about Shi'ism has only been in response to a provocative statement made by a Shi`a. I've never initiated anything myself.

As for responding to Shi`a rhetoric, then this is a must, in order to end the doubts that enter people's hearts when they whisper into the hearts of man.

I see thanks for clarifying. I still disagree with the way you treat people especially Shias.

YOur second point. I have been exposed to many shia online and off, and without anyone "responding" i've used my intellect and logic to go and read. You should give your brothers and sisters more credit.

[Khairan]

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

Khairan, do you not have a problem when Rahat does this:



He is invoking Allah and sending curses down upon other Muslims. I hope you know what a curse is......it's very harsh, on the same level as doing takfeer.

In fact I don't agree with rahat on this matter, and we have discussed this at length on the open forums.

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

I didn't say you, Khairan. I said "Shi`as", by which I meant twelvers, not you. You came to the defense of twelvers, so I responded in that manner.

If this were a discussion of twelvers making takfir on sunnis simply for being sunni I would feel the same -- and I have not shied away from saying as much in past discussions. I'm not concerned with "sect" here -- I am concerned with people believing they can monopolize Submission when in fact it is only the Master of the Universe who knows which of His creation is truly in Islam.

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

Go read a history book.

I know my history. I know that the Qur'an warned the first muslims (and through them, us) constantly of the dangers of Nifaq within the community, and that the Prophet himself was aware of traitors among his people. The Prophet apparently did not wish to create a culture of suspicion and witch hunts, however, because he insisted always that people who declared Islam were to be treated as Muslims.

There is the hadith of the man who asked the Prophet whether he should spare the life of a man whom he was fighting in battle and, gaining power over him, he found his enemy declaring the shahadah, and to whom the Prophet replied that he must accept his enemy's shahadah even in the heat of battle.

People have spoken of their "right" to make takfir upon shias because shias "make war" upon sunnis -- however, this not only ignores the long history of *mutual* violence that lies between the two communities but also assumes shias a priori have less of a right to be muslim: indeed, it is BECAUSE it is assumed that the shia claim to Islam is tenuous at best that sunnis can see themselves as the standard of Islam and see any shia violence against themselves as tantamount to an attack upon "the ummah" and Islam directly.

[AliFazel]

Originally Posted by IbnAbdullah

At least they don't do taqiyyah, they are open Kuffar, not Munafiqeen, they don't fool the world that they are Muslims and can be united with us. I may trust them more than to believe what shias say. Some Ahl-al-Kitab have been praised in Quran for they speak the truth, while Munafiqeen have been cursed by Allah..

LOL - Wolves of the same pack flock together



LOL ---> "They do not fool the world they are open Kuffar, not Munafiqeen," ??? --- They are as much a LIARS as you are.
BUT the good thing is - the truth is comes out at last -

Wahabism are now <reaching the ugly level of> giving the certificate of truthfulness to Kufar ----- Those who have a history of lies certifying other liars as truthful. LOL

Who is greater munafiqeen than those who take Jews and xtians as friends in defiance of the Allah(SWT)'s warning.

You accuse us of collaboration, just to hide your own collaboration with the enemies.

1) Bin-laden family’s business deals with Bush Family
2) Saudi Emirates and even PAK -openly help US aggression against Afghanistan -- LOL
3) Saudi and gulf Arabs allow the stationing of Kufar forces and allow air and sea bases to US
4) Being the riches nation on earth, they only give lip service to fellow Palestinians - No military help or protection. And they stand by, laughing and shaking hands with Kufar while their brothers are slaughtered daily by Israeli forces.

And these Wahabi have the audacity to accuse us )

[AliFazel]

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

Khairan, do you not have a problem when Rahat does this:

He is invoking Allah and sending curses down upon other Muslims. I hope you know what a curse is......it's very harsh, on the same level as doing takfeer.

Rahat always complains about 'Takfeeris' but in reality he is himself a 'laanati', a man who just does laanat all the time...on whose lips is nothing but the words 'laanat' and 'May Allah curse you'.....

I didn't say you, Khairan. I said "Shi`as", by which I meant twelvers, not you. You came to the defense of twelvers, so I responded in that manner.

Go read a history book.

Why does it pain you salahadeen - You should look at you own deeds

Its your words that bring about these hatred - blame yourself first

Don’t think that you have the licence to do 'Takfeer' while you try to forbid others from sending lanat.

Rule of this world -- hate others and they hate you -- quiet fair isn't it.


----------------------------------------------------------

If the Wahabi do not want to unite - it is not our loss.
May be it is a blessing of Allah (SWT) in disguise.

Those who help the Kufar with their wealth and who have no loyalty to their Palestinian brothers - What help can we expect from them?
They may stab us in the back too.

We will keep calling for Muslim unity

[rahat]

I got mad at the Wahabis because they were openly saying that they would prefer to have the blood of innocent Sunnis spilt on the streets, and that they should be burned alive by Israeli missile, rather than work with Shias to prevent this.

Truly if this is not the horn of shaitan, then nothing is.

I'd advise true Sunnis to be extremely suspicious of anyone who wants to see your blood spilt and your brothers and sisters murdered. Wahabis are not a part of you - no one would want their own people killed for any reason.

-
rahat