[AliFazel]

Originally Posted by IbnAbdullah

Sadly, it's not that simple as you say, it's not merely acceptance of Quran and the Prophet Muhammad s.a.w, it's accepting the Quran is not complete and the continual of Prophethood after Muhammad s.a.w in the name of infallible Imams.
Sorry we can't get united with Non-Muslims simply because you want that.

Originally Posted by IbnAbdullah

Not really, Iran and Hizbul want a shia lebanon. And what the hell shias are doing in Iraq and the rest of the world?


We can't unite with those who join kuffar against us, as they did in Afganistan and Iraq and elsewhere.


Do we spend the whole year cursing Muawiya and Yazid and the Caliphs of Islam in the name of hatred?
Well, I suggest liars be born again and confess their crimes.

Ibn abdulah - you are the sickest person here. - So sick and blind with hatred that you talk rubish most of the time.

1) When did the shias say quran is not complete? -- All those accusations that your sick wahabi people leveled against us have been answered and proved wrong - You still want to keep lying.

2) And please get it through your head that - Prophet (saw) is the last of the prophets --- there are no prophets after him. <Period> - Why are you so desperate to tell us what we believe?

3) You are so desperate to label us as KAFIR - that you even sink to the level of LIARS - Aren't you feeling ashamed?

What you think Iran wants does not matter here - People are loosing their lives - women are widowed, children are orphaned -- they (muslim people) go without food that you and I take for granted.

LOOK AT YOUR WORDS --- We can't unite with those who join kuffar against us, as they did in Afganistan and Iraq and elsewhere.

Where do you get your info from? --ARE YOU A MUSLIM - OR AN AGENT OF THE ENEMIES OF ISLAM?

You consider Palestinians as you brothers - Which of your organisations or countries have helped to them? Saudi and the gulf countries are the worlds largest producer of Oil –– Worlds largest wealth lies in the hands of the countries where Sunni brothers are in majority – YET - What have you got to show for this?

Israel does not have any oil wealth – where do you think it gets its support from?

Bosnia is largely Sunni country – WHY was it that Iran was the only country that sent weapons and Iranian war veterans went there to train the Bosnians? YOU HAVE SO MUCH WEALTH WHY DONT WE SEE ANY SIGNIFICANT HELP FROM YOU? All we see is words. - Words of hatred and nothing else.

Who helped the US aggression on Afghanistan? Are you saying that Saudi and the emirates did not allow their land and sea space and their bases to these aggressors? Which army is presently engaging the so called fighters on the afghan border? -Is it not Pakistan?- Why are you so quiet against them - as if you do not know?

All I see is venom against Shias, from your post

Why don’t you move to Palestine and suffer at the hands of Jews – and than come out with this rubish.

[Khairan]

Originally Posted by IbnAbdullah

Sadly, it's not that simple as you say, it's not merely acceptance of Quran and the Prophet Muhammad s.a.w, it's accepting the Quran is not complete and the continual of Prophethood after Muhammad s.a.w in the name of infallible Imams.

And how do we know that shias today are actually taught that there is something wrong with the Qur'an? Do we listen to takfiris like you, or shias like Biryani who actually practice the religion?

Imams are not Prophets -- belief in them certainly doesn't even begin to challenge the status that the Qur'an ascribes the Prophet of bearing the final message of Islam to humanity. Sorry, you lose.

Originally Posted by IbnAbdullah

Sorry we can't get united with Non-Muslims simply because you want that.

Pompous, aren't we?
I actually have no interest in "unity" with takfiris. I'm just pointing out, as I've noted already, that unity is impossible because we have collectively chosen to make it so, not because it is inherently so.

And, to reiterate a point I've made before: you're not exactly in a position to declare anyone a Muslim or not. Last time I checked, God wasn't asking you.

[IbnAbdullah]

Originally Posted by AliFazel

Bosnia is largely Sunni country – WHY was it that Iran was the only country that sent weapons and Iranian war veterans went there to train the Bosnians? YOU HAVE SO MUCH WEALTH WHY DONT WE SEE ANY SIGNIFICANT HELP FROM YOU? All we see is words. - Words of hatred and nothing else.

Who helped the US aggression on Afghanistan? Are you saying that Saudi and the emirates did not allow their land and sea space and their bases to these aggressors? Which army is presently engaging the so called fighters on the afghan border? -Is it not Pakistan?- Why are you so quiet against them - as if you do not know?

Read this before you die in hate:

March 15, 2001: India, Iran, Russia, and US Work in Concert to Remove Taliban

Jane’s Intelligence Review reports that the US is working with India, Iran, and Russia “in a concerted front against Afghanistan’s Taliban regime.” India is supplying the Northern Alliance with military equipment, advisers, and helicopter technicians and both India and Russia are using bases in Tajikistan and Uzbekistan for their operation. [Jane's Intelligence Review, 3/15/2001]

Context of 'March 15, 2001: India, Iran, Russia, and US Work in Concert to Remove Taliban'


June 26, 2001: US, Russia, and Regional Powers Cooperate to Oust Taliban

An Indian magazine reports more details of the cooperative efforts of the US, India, Russia, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Iran against the Taliban regime: “India and Iran will ‘facilitate’ US and Russian plans for ‘limited military action’ against the Taliban if the contemplated tough new economic sanctions don’t bend Afghanistan’s fundamentalist regime.” Earlier in the month, Russian President Vladimir Putin told a meeting of the Confederation of Independent States that military action against the Taliban may happen, possibly with Russian involvement using bases and forces from Uzbekistan and Tajikistan as well. [IndiaReacts, 6/26/2001]

Russia

[Salahadeen]

Ibn Abdullah, Ali Fazel will just say that the reports are fake. lol He just straight out denies facts.

[AliFazel]

Originally Posted by IbnAbdullah

Read this before you die in hate:

March 15, 2001: India, Iran, Russia, and US Work in Concert to Remove Taliban

Jane’s Intelligence Review reports that the US is working with India, Iran, and Russia
.................................................. ...................

June 26, 2001: US, Russia, and Regional Powers Cooperate to Oust Taliban

An Indian magazine reports more details of the cooperative efforts of the US, India, Russia, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Iran against the Taliban regime: .................................................. ..............................................

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

Ibn Abdullah, Ali Fazel will just say that the reports are fake. lol He just straight out denies facts.

Congratulations
Since your deen now allows you to accept the kufar as witness - You can let them tell you whether moon has been sited or not.

Soon, When a person standing at Kaaba claims to be Mahdi you can go and get the confirmation from, Jane’s Intelligence Review reports and that idol worshipers Indian magazine.

Is it surprising that you did not read anything about pak, Saudi and emirates helping the Kufar - but than, even if you say the American soldiers in Arab land with your own eyes, you would not believe until it is confirmed by Jane and the idol worshipers

With Muslims like you who needs enemies.

[IbnAbdullah]

Originally Posted by AliFazel

Congratulations
Since your deen now allows you to accept the kufar as witness - You can let them tell you whether moon has been sited or not.

Soon, When a person standing at Kaaba claims to be Mahdi you can go and get the confirmation from, Jane’s Intelligence Review reports and that idol worshipers Indian magazine.

Is it surprising that you did not read anything about pak, Saudi and emirates helping the Kufar - but than, even if you say the American soldiers in Arab land with your own eyes, you would not believe until it is confirmed by Jane and the idol worshipers

With Muslims like you who needs enemies.

At least they don't do taqiyyah, they are open Kuffar, not Munafiqeen, they don't fool the world that they are Muslims and can be united with us. I may trust them more than to believe what shias say. Some Ahl-al-Kitab have been praised in Quran for they speak the truth, while Munafiqeen have been cursed by Allah..

[IbnAbdullah]

Iran’s presence in Iraq
BY DR MUSTAFA ALANI

24 October 2006


IRAN’S interventionist policy in Iraq has a long history. Teheran’s objective to influence developments in Iraq is motivated by a number of strategic factors, as well as cultural and religious interests. The most important factor is that the history of the two nations has been characterised by a near permanent state of rivalry and political-military conflict.
In terms of the cultural, religious and ethnic dimensions, Iraq represents the outer perimeter and the final frontiers of the Arab nation and culture confronting the Persian nation and culture. From a cultural, religious and ethnic dimension, Iraq represents a perfect setting for Arab-Persian confrontation. Iraq also represents the point where Sunnis and Shias converge as well as confront each other. Therefore, Iraq-Iran rivalry has always had wider Arab national and historical dimensions, besides narrow local ones.
In terms of strategic considerations, Iraq always represented the power that acted as a counterbalance to Iran and effectively fulfilled the task of Arab containment of Iran. A Sunni-led Iraq has been the main instrument of the containment of Shia influence beyond the sect’s Iraq-Iran heartland.
In the Gulf region and the wider Middle East, the balance of power between Iraq and Iran is the key to regional stability. Each of them has tried to alter this delicate balance and taken advantage of the other’s weakness at one point or other.
Iran’s present plan to intervene in Iraq has its roots in the Iranian government’s decision to lend full support — overt and covert — to Iraqi Shia opposition groups shortly after the success of the Iranian revolution in 1979. Then came the adoption of a plan to help the pro-Iranian Shia religious and political groups topple Iraq’s Baáthist regime and seize power. But after more than 20 years of operation, and despite unlimited Iranian and Syrian political, financial and military support and propaganda, none of these Iraqi Shia groups proved capable of posing any serious threat to the Iraqi regime.
During the course of the Iraq-Iran war (1980-1988), the Iranian leadership mobilised the pro-Iran, mainly Iraqi Shia opposition parties — Supreme Council of Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI) and the Islamic Dawa Party — to support Iran’s military efforts in the hope of achieving victory. These two parties helped Iran with vital intelligence from Iraq; besides their cadres participated in Iran’s military operations along the border, even carrying out a number of attacks against Iraqi targets. The Baáthist regime in Iraq managed to prevent Iranian plans to interfere in Iraqi internal affairs. Indeed, until the US-led invasion of Iraq in April 2003, Iranian strategy to intervene in Iraq proved a complete failure. By mid-2002, the balance began to tip in Iran’s favour with the escalation of the Iraq-US confrontation. The pragmatic Iranian leadership accurately judged the seriousness of the post-9/11 Iraq-US conflict and US President George W. Bush’s determination to oust the Baáthist regime in Iraq at any price and by any means. Thus, while the American administration was fully engaged in plotting the removal of the Iraqi regime, the Iranian leadership was also busy planning how Teheran could strategically gain from any American adventure in Iraq.
This approach became evident in a number of high-level decisions taken by Teheran during 2002-2003. For example, first, against all declared ideological and political principles of the Iranian revolution and its proclaimed enmity towards the US and its polices, the Iranian leadership encouraged its allies — the main Iraq Shia opposition parties — to move closer to the US, especially during the crucial months preceding the US invasion.
From mid-2002 to invasion, Iraqi ayatollahs and prominent Shia political and religious figures frequently visited Washington or met high-ranking US officials openly. This unusual and ideologically contradictory alliance was formulated with the approval of Teheran’s religious and political leadership. They endorsed the fact that in Iranian political and strategic decision-making process, strategic interests outweigh ideological commitments or religious principles and taboos. In fact, the roots of this ‘realpolitik’ were evident in the practices of the Iranian Ayatollah’s policies long before the Iraq crisis — when the Islamic government of Iran decided to purchase US-made arms from Israel during the Iraq-Iran war and agreed to a direct supply route for the arms deal, in what became the Iran-Contra scandal.
Second, as part of the preparation to capitalise on the Iraq-US confrontation, the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution — who represents the highest religious and political authority in Iran — ordered in August 2002 the formation of a Special Committee on Iraq to monitor the development of the crisis, formulate an Iran strategy and mobilise the state’s resources to promote Iranian interests in post-Saddam Iraq. The special committee consisted of representatives from defence, intelligence, political, diplomatic, and religious institutions of the state.
The intelligence arm of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Forces — Al Quds, created shortly after the Iranian revolution and was responsible for promoting "external jihad" — was in charge of most, if not all, Iranian activities related to the ‘Iraqi theatre of operation’, including the sponsorship and control of the pro-Iran Shia opposition groups in Iraq and a direct and crucial control of these groups’ intelligence and armed wings, as well as militias. Among the chief aims of these institutions were: first, prevent an American success in Iraq to ensure that it did not undermine the stability and security of Iran, as well as threaten the survival of the Islamic regime, at a later stage; second, establish a viable and sustainable Iranian influence in ‘new Iraq’ that could serve Iran’s long-term strategic interests in the region and beyond; and third, prevent the emergence of a ‘strong Iraq’ that could maintain its traditional challenge and competition with Iran, or revive the traditional balance of power between the two states and the practice of containment.
Thus, the Iranian formula was simple and well-defined: a failed US + a weak and fragmented Iraq = a strong and influential Iran.
Further, by virtue of its past association, Iran has links with all the important power centres in ‘new Iraq’ too. First, the Iranian intelligence apparatus maintained strong links with and influence over the militia forces and intelligence arm of the Iraqi Shia parties that are in power now. At the same time, the Iranian intelligence community established an overt and covert presence in Iraq, particularly in the Shia heartland in southern Iraq, Shia holy cities, and parts of Baghdad. Second, the Iranian leadership had strong links with the new Iraqi Shia political leadership. Such links were rooted in the traditional Iranian sponsorship of the Iraqi Shia political opposition groups since 1980. Moreover, many of these groups were established and even operated in Iran until the downfall of the Iraqi Baáthist regime in April 2003. Third, the Iranian religious leadership maintained strong links with its Iraqi Shia counterparts because the two centers of Shia spiritual authority — Najaf and Qum — are now closer than ever before. Both religious centres perceive the situation with common interest, which requires a high degree of coordination, and both have huge moral and practical leverage over Iraq’s political and security leaderships.
Iran’s interventionist policy in Iraq has already attained a significant part of its objectives. In fact, despite US forces occupying the country, Iran has more influence over developments in post-Saddam Iraq than ever before.
D Mustafa Alani is senior adviser and Director of the Security and Terrorism Programme at the Gulf Research Center in Dubai. This article is among a collection of analysis and opinions published in the August edition of the GRC’s Security and Terrorism Research Bulletin

Khaleej Times Online - Iran’s presence in Iraq=

[Salahadeen]

Brother, nothing will convince him! NOTHING.

[roberto]

Originally Posted by AliFazel

Israel threatens to unleash 'holocaust' in Gaza

Israel threatens to unleash 'holocaust' in Gaza - Times Online



Earlier We were discussing about the Shia-Sunni Unity on Common Grounds.

The common grounds are:-
1. Protecting Al Quds
2. Confronting the common enemy.
3. Protecting our people from Massacre
4. Supplying them means to defend themselves

After reading the link what do you think?
Should we not call for unity and co-operation?

I would suggest that a call is made for those involved to stop firing rockets

[TrentReznor858]

No one has mentioned racism as one of the factors keeping muslim unity a distant dream. In San Diego there are different mosques for different races. It is never explicitly mentioned, but I find that Arabs in particular have a particular distaste for people who arent their specific racial background.

[IbnAbdullah]

Originally Posted by TrentReznor858

No one has mentioned racism as one of the factors keeping muslim unity a distant dream. In San Diego there are different mosques for different races. It is never explicitly mentioned, but I find that Arabs in particular have a particular distaste for people who arent their specific racial background.

I have not seen Arabs hate Persians the way Persians or Pro-Persians like you hate them and it's very much evident from the posts peeps like you throw around.

[IbnAbdullah]

Originally Posted by roberto

I would suggest that a call is made for those involved to stop firing rockets

Suicide attacks are the best remedy for Jewish and American terrorists, rockets don't work, what you say?

[Salahadeen]

Originally Posted by Khairan

Do we listen to takfiris like you, or shias like Biryani who actually practice the religion?

Khairan, twelver Shi`as say you Ismailis are kaafirs!

[IbnAbdullah]

Originally Posted by Salahadeen </