[Abdullah_1417]

Wow where is the love? I'm glad i'm not in the debating game any longer i feel so left out

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by Abdul_Karim

If you mean living scholars then I can name none. I've never studied aqeedah under a living scholar.

I fail to see what this has to do with me being a Salafi or not.

Right. So you've never studied the Islamic sciences nor have you studied under a scholar for anything, yet you have the audacity to claim that hundreds of thousands of 'Ulema in the past have been deviant?

Keep up with the ass clownery. It'll get you far in life.

You are a human devil.

I'd rather be a human devil than a retarded rhesus monkey who walks around in assless chaps.

You find what I said offensive? Too damn bad. I find what you believe in regarding the theological positions of the Ummah to be not only offensive, but so idiotic that only a person on special education programs would believe in such tripe.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by Abdullah_1417

Wow where is the love? I'm glad i'm not in the debating game any longer i feel so left out

This wasn't a debate. I have no problem with the Salafi aqeedah. You want to believe that Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) has certain attributes, thats fine with me. DON'T, however, tell me that the Ashairah and the Maturidiyyah are heretical sects when you haven't studied a single Islamic science in your life.

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

The debate is about whether a fringe group of fanatics can monopolize the Islamic intellectual tradition by judging authenticity on whether God sits on a latrine or not.

Wow.
Your posts have been really out of line lately, Jinnz. Were you always like this?

Anyhoo...

Nobody answered my question. Why would Allah be above his arsh and not on it?

[Abdullah_1417]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

This wasn't a debate. I have no problem with the Salafi aqeedah. You want to believe that Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) has certain attributes, thats fine with me. DON'T, however, tell me that the Ashairah and the Maturidiyyah are heretical sects when you haven't studied a single Islamic science in your life.

Jinn, we've had our 'discussions' and such and it's better for the individuals to present substantial evidence towards one another. HOWEVER it becomes more of a mud-slinging event b/c no fun in dissecting the differences

[Salahadeen]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

wow, jinnzaman a shia lover? you don't read many of his posts do you? he, like everyone has a lot of bad qualities, but this one (if you consider it a bad quality) is one he doesn't posess.

Dear sister, brother Jinnzaman does express fascination for the Shi`as. You will see that when he posts on his own forum. Brother Jinnzaman asks very basic questions about Shi'ism and then thinks himself to be an expert on the subject. But yes, we have found him to defend Shi`as...yes, sometimes he then goes on a fit against them...but that *is* his personality...he's the biggest flip-flop ever...one minute he is posting a thread about golden lotas, and the very next he is posting a thread about how we shouldn't joke in Islam and waste time...and then one minute he's blasting Shi`as, and the next he is professing this deep fascination for them, even defending them, flouting the opinion of our traditional scholars! I've never seen a bigger hormonal flip-flop than him!

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

No surprise that you aren't answering the question: you aren't a faqih nor are you a muhaddith and I doubt you have familiarity with the Arabic language, so I'm sure as hell you didn't go through the entire Qur'an and EVERY single hadeeth of different gradings.

The real question is: is your aqeedah from a forum or a scholar (and if so, which scholar)?

The funniest thing here is that you yourself don't know or speak Arabic...you are not, nor have you ever been, a student of knowledge. I've often seen students of knowledge become arrogant, and mock others for their lack of knowledge. Although I am against this arrogance, nonetheless at least they are boasting about something they have. Meanwhile, YOU are a jokester yourself and then you mock others for their lack of knowledge.

You've never ever been a student of knowledge in your life...you've never had any formal training whatsoever...you don't speak Arabic...the most you've done is take some online courses off of Sunni Path and maybe Arabic 101 at your university...so tell me, why do you exude such arrogance when you have nothing to back it up with? You are a big poser...you post on some threads just to show off bits of knowledge, like correct the spelling of an Arabic title...and sometimes you bring up irrelevant topics just to show that you are "in the know"...bro, you have such arrogance even when you haven't studied one day as a student of knowledge!!!

I've seen students of knowledge who are in their first or second years of a six year long program..yet they are more humble than you, who is in his ZERO year of Islamic studies...

I have no problem with you voicing your opinion, since I do the same myself. What I *do* have a problem with is your hypocrisy...at most, you've attended a few halaqas by such-and-such scholar, and that too in English, so who in the world are you trying to impress? You should admit that you are a nothing like the rest of us, instead of thinking of yourself as so high and mighty. Really, check yourself. When you post next time, think to yourself: am I really trying to contribute something or am I just posting in order to show off that I know some fact or some bit of knowledge?

Now coming to your question, yes YES YES--I have studied aqeedah one-to-one with scholars, not through the internet. I have studied with one scholar from Umm al-Qurra (Macca) and another from Univ of Madeenah. Any other stupid questions?

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

No wonder you're a salafi. You don't have the brains to be anything but a mindless drone.

You hormonal child you. You say that you have no problem with Salafi Aqeedah and you accuse ME of attacking Ash'aris. Look at the words that come out of your mouth, you flip-flopping hypocrite. You call Salafis to be mindless drones...and then you accuse others of attacking Ash'aris. You are really a flip-flop sir!

[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

Bro, your argument has been dealt with by Brother Abu az-Zubayr, which I copied/pasted, which shows that for many centuries (up until the 7th), the Ash'aris were a persecuted minority. Therefore, it does not make sense to claim that the Asharis/Maturidis are on haqq just because they are the majority, since this wasn't the case before the 7th century.

Why do you use the terms Maturidi & Ashari interchangeably?

You know who Imam Maturidi (RA) was taught by, right?

Do you think he or his teachers were heretics/deviants?

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

Anyways, nobody defined orthodoxy more than Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (ra) who was an Athari. To claim that you must be Ashari/Maturidi because they form some sort of numerical majority, well thats poppycock. Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (ra) saved the Islamic orthodoxy.

Let's get back to the topic insha-Allah.

Do you think Imam Shafi (RA), who Imam ibn Hanbal (RA) was a student of, was unorthodox? Or was he Athari as well?

Also, answer this question

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

Do you consider non-Salafi Sunnis to be heretics?

[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

The debate is about whether a fringe group of fanatics can monopolize the Islamic intellectual tradition by judging authenticity on whether God sits on a latrine or not.

That was offensive & unnecessary, to say the least.

[Salahadeen]

Originally Posted by Khairan

If this thread has outlived its usefulness then it will be closed.

So basically the thread will be closed because of the antics of Jinnzaman?

Originally Posted by ShamilB

You must think of yourself too much if you think people want to debate you. Let's summarize:

1. Salahadeen starts of the thread explaining his position with evidences from Quran and Sunnah.
2. You respond by claiming a majority of people are Asharis (an argument that you used a thousand times on this forum).
3. Salahadeen explains how the Asharis started off as a fringe movement and gained more prominence after the 7th century.
4. You accuse Salahadeen of spending too much time at Islamic Awakening, including a few personal jabs at Abuz Zubair.
5. Salahadeen exposes you in a debate (not so much a debate) that you had with Abuz Zubair where you got debunked, owned, humiliated, and forced to chicken out in shame.
6. Showing more frustration at your inability to debate, you lash out at Abuz Zubair and the forum with lame childish insults, innuendos, and the one thing you do really well - playing the victim card.
7. Finally, you achieve your goal of derailing the thread and on the verge of getting locked. Bravo!

That's a very good summary of the thread, bro. All because brother Jinnzaman couldn't answer a simple question, which is "where is Allah?"

(Irony Warning: Salahuddeen was named after the great Muslim general who was *surprise* an ASHARI!)

Nothing ironic about that at all, dear brother. We love Salahadeen Ayyoubi (ra) for his bravery on the battlefield, for defeating the Shi`as and the Crusaders, and for liberating the Holy Land. As for him being Ash'ari, yes there is some evidence to indicate that, although it doesn't matter if he was or was not. He founded various Sunni schools--including both Ash'ari and Hanbali--in order to counter the Shi`as. He was not a Neo-Jahmite.

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

The debate is about whether a fringe group of fanatics can monopolize the Islamic intellectual tradition by judging authenticity on whether God sits on a latrine or not.

Astagfur-Allah. Such attacks on the Atharis!

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

Whats it matter? I'm a deviant heretic anyway? If I'm going to hell for believing that God isn't on the arsh, then why do proper manners mean anything?

I never said you're going to Hell for that, dear brother.

Stop filling up the argument with irrelevant tangents and state your claims.

Brother Flip Flop, it is YOU Who brings up the tangential arguments! This thread was about WHERE IS ALLAH, yet you switched topics and derailed it to something else.

[Khairan]

Alright, I posted a warning earlier and this thread is still mostly just flaming and personal attacks and very little discussion of the topic at hand.

Closing.