[Kadhim]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

Do you have any substantial reply to what I wrote regarding the etymological root difference between the word 3abd and other similar words like khaadim?

The substantial reply is that your claim lacks substance. Simple as that.
A'bd doesn't necessarily mean worshipper. There's no discussion to it; the word has multiple meanings. The sense of "service" is actually the primary use of the word in classical Arabic.

So although yes, the term 3abd can mean both worshipper and slave / servant, in order to avoid falling into error if one wants to label himself a partisan of another man without implying any kind of shirk, then use another term [such as khaadim].

Well, hate to break it to you, but I'm not sure who appointed you guardian of the Arabic language. Your point lacks merit linguistically and religiously.
Serving the designated leaders of mankind is not inconsistent with mankind's service to God; rather, it is a necessary component of it, without which, our service to God is in some way, incomplete.

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by Kadhim

Well, hate to break it to you, but I'm not sure who appointed you guardian of the Arabic language. Your point lacks merit linguistically and religiously.

You are a liar, an incompetent fool, and you don't know how to admit that you don't know what you're talking about.

Either go study its etymological and religious roots and compare it with other words that mean servant, or just shut up and sit down.

[Bluestar]

I hate discussions like these.

One group argues about why they think it's right, the other group continues to post why they think it's wrong and what the 'proper' way is. Yet none of them can actually accept in that tradition it's accepted like that and in the other it's accepted differently.

This also reminds me of my arab salafi friend, whom i still love to bits. In secondary school she used to tell me not to say "Ya" in front of anything else other than Allah's names or it would be counted as Shirk. She said putting a "Ya" in front of the Prophets names would be definite shirk. Then after class, she was calling her sister and shouted, "YA MARYAM, YA MARYAM!!

At the end of the day, does it actually matter? Does it enter your four walls? Is it attempted to be forced into your nasal cavaties? i doubt it.

Discussions like these are never progressive and they always remind me of small boys sitting on a wall arguing about how right they are and their parents told them they were right so they had to be right. Their Uncle Chacha said "xxxxx" so that proves it's right and even MAMACHI got involved and she said "xxxxx" which absolutely bloody proves i'm right and i'm going to paradise and you're going to eat the poo from my shoes or the more tolerating will think "i'm going to paradise but not sure where you're going".

[MossadConspiracy]

salam

i've heard that its wrong to have a name with abd followed by anything other than one of allah's names. In Egypt, there are alot of (sunni) people with family names like abdulnabi and abdulrasul, and as far as i know the official fatwas there encouraged them to change their names to something like abdullah or "abd rab el naby".

the term does not only refer to worship. 'abd' means slave and it is used to refer to regular slavery. For example, it is the term that alot of yemenis use to refer to black people, and they dont mean anything that has to do with worship when they use it

ws

[Bluestar]

That's it, BABAJI came and said it's true

[Revert]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

salam

i've heard that its wrong to have a name with abd followed by anything other than one of allah's names. In Egypt, there are alot of (sunni) people with family names like abdulnabi and abdulrasul, and as far as i know the official fatwas there encouraged them to change their names to something like abdullah or "abd rab el naby".

the term does not only refer to worship. 'abd' means slave and it is used to refer to regular slavery. For example, it is the term that alot of yemenis use to refer to black people, and they dont mean anything that has to do with worship when they use it

ws

We need more Arabs to enter this discussion. Thanks Mossad. The only ones who can truly clarify this are the Arabs as its their language and their culture.

[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by Bluestar

This also reminds me of my arab salafi friend, whom i still love to bits. In secondary school she used to tell me not to say "Ya" in front of anything else other than Allah's names or it would be counted as Shirk. She said putting a "Ya" in front of the Prophets names would be definite shirk. Then after class, she was calling her sister and shouted, "YA MARYAM, YA MARYAM!!

Not sure how this could confuse anyone. "Ya" is used to directly address someone who is present before you, so those who argue against it say that it is shirk because it implies the Prophet (SAW) is capable of being omnipresent.

I personally don't believe it's shirk, but the example you used makes 0 sense as a rebuttal against those who argue it is.

[rahat]

Originally Posted by Revert

The name Abdul-Muttalib was a "nick name" given to him in the age of Jahaliyyah. His birth name was Shaiba ibn Hashim. That arguement doesn't work well for me because of this.

Again to understand the usage of the 3abd prefix one would have to be a native Arabic user.

ALso here is a fatwa on the naming of children according to sunni fiqh

What is the proper naming of a child?

I know exactly who Shayba ibn Hashim was, and yes I am aware it was not his birthname (altho I'd hardly call it a 'nickname') - but for the purposes of this linguistic conversation my point was that no one in that time thought, even though it was the age of Jahilliyah, that Shaiba worshipped his uncle Muttalib, brother of Hashim.

Today, despite the age of Jahiliyah being gone, some of you - without proof or evidence have insisted its haram, and accused of us committing shirk without our own knowledge. When we clarify that we are not worshiping anyone but Allah, you accuse us of shirk anyways.

So its odd that ur offended I use the phrase "You Sunnis" when the accusation of Shirk is being made against us, against our own will, on a topic we deny is shirk, especially when we have no other deity except Allah, and associate no partners to him.

The fatwa you provided, from the respected source Sunnipath, further has no comment whatsoever, on this particular issue, neither to say it is haram, wajib, makruh, mustaheb, or mubah.

I hope I'm not coming off as harsh, its just my writing style, but I just wanted to clarify that:
1. There's no evidence from any fatwa that it is even disliked.
2. There's no evidence from historical precedent that people such considered names to be an absolute qualifier of faith.
3. There is no evidence from an authentic source of Arabic knowledge that simplying saying the word "abd" means "I worship the next word - no matter what comes next"
4. In the other "Hind as a name" thread, about 100 people jumped down my throat about how no one can help what they are named. Shouldn't there be continuity in opinion, or is it completely acceptable for Sunnis to have one set of rules, but the opposite set of rules applied to Shia?

-
rahat

[LEGALEAGLE]

Originally Posted by Revert

We need more Arabs to enter this discussion. Thanks Mossad. The only ones who can truly clarify this are the Arabs as its their language and their culture.

Not really.

At university we had a palestinian christian who pretended to be muslim till we asked him to read one of the quranic surah's which was on the wall of the local takeaway.

Being an Arab doesn't make somebody an expert on Islamic Arab since we're interested in the religious context not some 'street arabic'.

[LEGALEAGLE]

Originally Posted by rahat

So its odd that ur offended I use the phrase "You Sunnis" when the accusation of Shirk is being made against us, against our own will, on a topic we deny is shirk, especially when we have no other deity except Allah, and associate no partners to him.

Shouldn't there be continuity in opinion, or is it completely acceptable for Sunnis to have one set of rules, but the opposite set of rules applied to Shia?

-
rahat

I don't think you're entitled to claim the word 'shia' for your particular sect and in any case you seem to have no problems in attacking other 'shia' groups for their beliefs



At university we had a palestinian christian who pretended to be muslim till we asked him to read one of the quranic surah's which was on the wall of the local takeaway.

Being an Arab doesn't make somebody an expert on Islamic Arab since we're interested in the religious context not some 'street arabic'.

[MossadConspiracy]

"Abd" means slave in the literal sense of the word, in Quranic Arabic, MSA, and the dialects. Connotations of worship exist in all of those sources as well (hence the problems with names like abdelnaby), however the word does strictly involve worship. In fact it is used many times in the Quran to refer to slaves

ws

[Bluestar]

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

Not sure how this could confuse anyone. "Ya" is used to directly address someone who is present before you, so those who argue against it say that it is shirk because it implies the Prophet (SAW) is capable of being omnipresent.

I personally don't believe it's shirk, but the example you used makes 0 sense as a rebuttal against those who argue it is.

yes it does and your face sucks.

[IbnAbdullah]

Originally Posted by Bluestar

I hate discussions like these.

I hate your logic, that doesn't make any sense, as follows:

One group argues about why they think it's right, the other group continues to post why they think it's wrong and what the 'proper' way is. Yet none of them can actually accept in that tradition it's accepted like that and in the other it's accepted differently.

This also reminds me of my arab salafi friend, whom i still love to bits. In secondary school she used to tell me not to say "Ya" in front of anything else other than Allah's names or it would be counted as Shirk. She said putting a "Ya" in front of the Prophets names would be definite shirk. Then after class, she was calling her sister and shouted, "YA MARYAM, YA MARYAM!!

[IbnAbdullah]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

salam

i've heard that its wrong to have a name with abd followed by anything other than one of allah's names. In Egypt, there are alot of (sunni) people with family names like abdulnabi and abdulrasul, and as far as i know the official fatwas there encouraged them to change their names to something like abdullah or "abd rab el naby".

the term does not only refer to worship. 'abd' means slave and it is used to refer to regular slavery. For example, it is the term that alot of yemenis use to refer to black people, and they dont mean anything that has to do with worship when they use it

ws

The Egyptians and Yemenis you mentioned who think abd is just slave are ignorant fools, you should seek knowledge and stay away from the ignorant.
You can't define 'Abd' as some idiots in Egypt or Yemen say, you take Quran as the source for definition of this word.