[Wolfn]

Let's say you're watching TV or something, and the door rings. You open the door, and the Prophet Muhammd (PBAH) is standing there.

What do you do? What would you say to Him? Quickly clean the house as best you could? Would you want to dress traditionally? Read the Qu'ran constantly with Him? Perform more than the daily 5 salaat?

Have you ever thought about what it would be like if the Prophet Muhammad (PBAH) showed up to your house?

[vegetables]

bust out the ddr mats

[kellyjaz]

...

How can we unite the ummah?


...

[ChotooMotoo]

I would invite him in, appologize for the state of my house, and offer him a cup of tea. Inshallah he would be understanding that I have to earn money and cannot spend enough time on housework. He was the most gracious and understanding person.

[AceOfHearts]

This thread represents case of a form of a serious sin described in the Qur'an. This sin is 'associating partners with Allah'.

The Prophet Muhammad, to vast majority of the Muslims, has become an idol and a diety taken in worship alongside Allah. This hidden idolatry goes unnoticed but its signs are ever present and is a rampant act of idolatry for majority of Muslims.

"And most of them will not believe in Allah except while setting-up partners." [Qur'an 12:106]

According to the Qur'an, all deeds are to be orientated solely for Allah alone. Seeking the approval of any other being, or doing good deeds to seek the approval of a creation instead of one true Allah, is blatent idolatry.

"Nor would he instruct you to take the angels and the Prophets for lords and patrons. Would he command you to disbelieve after you have surrendered to Allah?" [Qur'an 3:80]

Being heedless of Allah and returning to uprightness in the presence of a messenger, indicates deeper devotion to and fear of a created being than of Allah. This is clear idolatry, or 'shirk'.

"... Fear Allah and know that Allah is fierce in retribution." [Qur'an 2:196]

The Qur'an also identifies the weakness in some people who remain devoted to religion only in the presence of the messenger, but lack the same devotion without the messengers presence:

"And Muhammed is but a messenger, like many messengers that have passed before him. If he dies or is killed will you turn back on your heels? And whoever turns back on his heels, he will not harm God in the least. And God will reward the thankful." [Qur'an 3:144]

It is clear, that people must remain devoted to Allah whatever the circumstances, whether a messenger/prophet is present or not. The presence of any created being must not be the reason in prompting one to do good deeds, rather true fear of Allah should be the sole reason at all times.

"Say: 'I am but a human being like you, being inspired that your god is One god. So whoever looks forward to meeting his Lord, then let him do good works and not set up any partner in the service of his Lord.'" [Qur'an 18:110]

[Abu_Hind]

Ace of Farts you are a freakin' retard. No one elevated the Nabi 'alayhis salatu wa salaam to the level of Allah azza wa jal. Asking what would I do if Nabi (saw) showed up, is in no way akin to Shirk. As it is not association in partnership to Allah, since no one is worshipping the Nabi.

[AceOfHearts]

Originally Posted by Abu_Hind

Ace of Farts you are a freakin' retard. No one elevated the Nabi 'alayhis salatu wa salaam to the level of Allah azza wa jal. Asking what would I do if Nabi (saw) showed up, is in no way akin to Shirk. As it is not association in partnership to Allah, since no one is worshipping the Nabi.

You need to redefine your understanding of "worship" and "shirk", and make it in-line according to the Qur'an. It is clear that to you, bowing down before a a physical object is the only way one commits shirk. This is just not the case with how the Qur'an describes 'shirk', it is a much deeper phenomenon than commonly taken to be.

[Abu_Hind]

Originally Posted by AceOfHearts

You need to redefine your understanding of "worship" and "shirk", and make it in-line according to the Qur'an. It is clear that to you, bowing down before a a physical object is the only way one commits shirk. This is just not the case with how the Qur'an describes 'shirk', it is a much deeper phenomenon than commonly taken to be.

Without getting into technicalities, there are two basic problems with your stupid assertion:

a) By defining "shirk" and "worship" the way you do, you hereby, declare a vast majority of muslims to be Mushrikin devoid of knowing the right way to worship.

b) This self-rigtheous assertion of yours also suggessts that you believe that large majority of muslims had it wrong for 1400 years, but you understood it correctly. And this is outright prepostrous according to dictates of rationality.

[wheelworks]

Now now kids, keep your hats on and behave

[Wolfn]

Originally Posted by AceOfHearts

This thread represents case of a form of a serious sin described in the Qur'an. This sin is 'associating partners with Allah'.

The Prophet Muhammad, to vast majority of the Muslims, has become an idol and a diety taken in worship alongside Allah. This hidden idolatry goes unnoticed but its signs are ever present and is a rampant act of idolatry for majority of Muslims.

"And most of them will not believe in Allah except while setting-up partners." [Qur'an 12:106]

According to the Qur'an, all deeds are to be orientated solely for Allah alone. Seeking the approval of any other being, or doing good deeds to seek the approval of a creation instead of one true Allah, is blatent idolatry.

"Nor would he instruct you to take the angels and the Prophets for lords and patrons. Would he command you to disbelieve after you have surrendered to Allah?" [Qur'an 3:80]

Being heedless of Allah and returning to uprightness in the presence of a messenger, indicates deeper devotion to and fear of a created being than of Allah. This is clear idolatry, or 'shirk'.

"... Fear Allah and know that Allah is fierce in retribution." [Qur'an 2:196]

The Qur'an also identifies the weakness in some people who remain devoted to religion only in the presence of the messenger, but lack the same devotion without the messengers presence:

"And Muhammed is but a messenger, like many messengers that have passed before him. If he dies or is killed will you turn back on your heels? And whoever turns back on his heels, he will not harm God in the least. And God will reward the thankful." [Qur'an 3:144]

It is clear, that people must remain devoted to Allah whatever the circumstances, whether a messenger/prophet is present or not. The presence of any created being must not be the reason in prompting one to do good deeds, rather true fear of Allah should be the sole reason at all times.

"Say: 'I am but a human being like you, being inspired that your god is One god. So whoever looks forward to meeting his Lord, then let him do good works and not set up any partner in the service of his Lord.'" [Qur'an 18:110]

I see what you're saying, but I don't worship Prophet Muhammad (PBAH). He's just highly regarded and respected in Islam, so I was interested to hear from people what they would do if He showed up at your house. I could say "what would you say and do if Allah (SWT) showed up at your house", but Allah (SWT) is not a Physical Being. You know what I'm saying?

Sorry for any confusion or anything.

[Khairan]

Originally Posted by Wolfn

Let's say you're watching TV or something, and the door rings. You open the door, and the Prophet Muhammd (PBAH) is standing there.

What do you do? What would you say to Him? Quickly clean the house as best you could? Would you want to dress traditionally? Read the Qu'ran constantly with Him? Perform more than the daily 5 salaat?

Have you ever thought about what it would be like if the Prophet Muhammad (PBAH) showed up to your house?

I'd have a billion questions. I think the first thing I'd want to know is how to address the rampant sectarianism in the Muslim world, which he warned us regarding before his passing and which he knew was inevitable.

[AceOfHearts]

Originally Posted by Wolfn

I see what you're saying, but I don't worship Prophet Muhammad (PBAH). He's just highly regarded and respected in Islam, so I was interested to hear from people what they would do if He showed up at your house. I could say "what would you say and do if Allah (SWT) showed up at your house", but Allah (SWT) is not a Physical Being. You know what I'm saying?

Sorry for any confusion or anything.

Ones faith in Allah should be firm and resolute, even when Allah is invisible. What you are suggesting is that the required faith in Allah is not possible without seeing a physical existance, thus anecdode uses the Prophet Muhammad as, in a way, an idol to assist in worship.

This whole story revolves around idolatry, and most people do not see it.

"And most of them will not believe in Allah except while committing idol-worship." [Qur'an 12:106]

The seriousness of having a visible diety alongside Allah to help in religion has been strongly rebuked in the following Verse of the Qur'an:

"And you said: "O Moses, we will not believe you until we see Allah openly!" So the thunderbolt bolt struck you while you looked on." [Qur'an 2:55]

Allah is ever existant, and true believers are fully firm in faith of His existance at all times. Whether they are put in front of a Prophet or not, makes no difference in their adherance to Allah's religion. If the view of a visible Prophet helps, than their devotion is to something other than Allah - again, idol-worship.

Abu Hind's only recourse is the majority of people. We are informed in the Qur'an that majority do not believe in Allah without setting up idols as partners with Allah. We are also informed that the majority may not always be on the right path:

"And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you astray; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess." [Qur'an 6:116]

[ChotooMotoo]

ummm.... We do not associate partners with Allah (swt) Ace, you're confusing Muslims with Christians.

Basically you're trying to tell us that it's a sin to acknoledge that Muhammad (saw) was the final prophet, gave us the Quran, and was the best example of how to be a Muslim, and that we shouldn't follow his perfect example of how a mortal man can live Islam.

By your example, we should re-invent the wheel every time, even though we have a perfectly good automobile right in frong of us. Einstein said himself that if he saw farther, it's becuase he stood on the shoulders of giants. Well, Newton was the giant of Physics, and Muhammad (saw) was the giant of Islam. Naturally we will follow his example for how to arrange our affairs. If you deny Muhammad (saw) you are denying the Quran, which means you're denying Islam. If that's the case why don't you just go sit with Jeff over in the corner and preach Christianity and how we're all going to hell.

[AceOfHearts]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

ummm.... We do not associate partners with Allah (swt) Ace, you're confusing Muslims with Christians.

Basically you're trying to tell us that it's a sin to acknoledge that Muhammad (saw) was the final prophet, gave us the Quran, and was the best example of how to be a Muslim, and that we shouldn't follow his perfect example of how a mortal man can live Islam.

By your example, we should re-invent the wheel every time, even though we have a perfectly good automobile right in frong of us. Einstein said himself that if he saw farther, it's becuase he stood on the shoulders of giants. Well, Newton was the giant of Physics, and Muhammad (saw) was the giant of Islam. Naturally we will follow his example for how to arrange our affairs. If you deny Muhammad (saw) you are denying the Quran, which means you're denying Islam. If that's the case why don't you just go sit with Jeff over in the corner and preach Christianity and how we're all going to hell.

Assalamu alaikum,

I am not sure what prompted you to write all that. I dont see how all that you said is related to what I have been writing all this time, in any way what whatsoever.

peace.

[kenneth]

I honestly think I might crap myself.