[Revert]

Originally Posted by Zam

This post hits the nail on the head. If they did it, then whatever they did is obviously the correct interpretation.

Anyway, can someone explain what about the modern day makes polygyny bad?

I wouldn't necessarily say its bad in the modern day. It goes against cultural norms of Modern Western(and some Eastern) Society, so in the back of peoples minds its unusual behaviour. Even in my mind I find it peculiar but thats to be expected as I was born and raised in the West with those cultural norms and practices.

[Anderson]

Originally Posted by sally

you can be such a goddamn moron sometimes.. jokes about violence are never funny

Somebody really needs to slap you, that would be really funny to watch.

[sally]

Originally Posted by Anderson

Somebody really needs to slap you, that would be really funny to watch.

you have a lot of pent up rage, dont' you? and try too hard to come off as tough/violent

additionally i wont lie, you more than often come off as an insanely desperate guy

[shadha]

Zam: Anyway, can someone explain what about the modern day makes polygyny bad?

sak: This is what I was wondering. I think that primarily it's because many people today, including muslims, find it distasteful.

It's not that polygyny itself is bad, it's how it practiced and wrongfully encouraged in the modern day Western society that make people cringe and develop a great disliking for it. Growing up, I didn't just dislike it, I despised it. You hear all the figures on what the percentage of actual polygamous marriages are in the world and at first it seems like a very miniscule amount compared to the total population of Muslims. However, for some of us, like myself, polygyny is a very common thing. Growing up, it seemed that every year or two, one family in the community got torn apart due to the fathers taking another wife.

It's not common across the board- I find that it's the most common in black Muslim American families. I was just explaining to my father [a black Muslim American lol] how black Muslim American brothers have THE biggest con of the century going on against their faith. They are Pimping the Din. Each group has their thing and the Black Muslim Americans have their thang and they are just milking it for all its worths, while totally ignoring the fact that the majority of times it comes back to not just bite but to gnaw at their asses.

Follow the laws of the land unless they contradict Islam. Polygyny is not an obligation, it's not even encouraged, so the Western law against polygamy is not unIslamic and therefore should be upheld. I can't speak for other countries, but in the US, polygamy is illegal. From Utah to Alabama to Hawaii and every territory owned by the US, it is absolutely unquestionably illegal.

So one may think, to hell with the 'kafir' laws, for Allah, swt, laws reigns over it. Oki. No not really, reason already given above, but oki. So they go against the laws of their land, which in actuality is going against Allah, swt, and take a second wife. Now, since the land, America, does not allow for polygamous marriages, the court of law will not acknowledge the second wife as a wife but instead only as a mistress and her children bastards. Society at large will recognize her as a mistress and the children from that marriage as bastards.

Only in some instances, such as with a commonwealth state where religious marriages often become legal' after a certain amount of years, will the second wife eventually be recognized as a second wife, and if that is the case, then he will be jailed.

Not only do the women and children suffer from such grave titles, but they legally have nothing going for them. In the event of death, they aren't entitled to get any of his government funds- nothing.

Before I even continue, right there is an enormous injustice between the wives. One is seen as the wife the other a mistress, one is legally married and thus benefiting from what comes with that status and the other is not and will not. How is the equality?

Continuing...so you have these supped up religious down with the Din brothers who think they'll be clever and not marry either of the women legally but just religiously. Need I say more?

Just when you think it couldn't possibly get any worse than this- these brothers go and try to get on welfare. Are you KIDDING me?? They send each wife down at a time, but of course they are asked who the father of the children are...they can't tell the truth if they want the welfare money, so they lie and say they don't know. Mighty honorable, eh?

So you have this family which was once one until the father goes and gets the second wife which brings havoc to the first family. Time and time again, it's the same story, the first family pleading and crying with their father not to do it, the brothers in the community who already made the mistake [and now are living with it- some children disown their fathers, others lose all respect, many go buckwild in their behavior, and the dysfunction just continues] are pleading with the father not to do it, the women of the community are in an uproar and take it out on their own husbands, but despite it all he does it anyway. Then usually less than a year, no more than three, the second marriage fails and ends up in divorce. Though of course, you have the communities where polygyny is accepted and encouraged [think back to the welfare brothers], so some fathers get away scratch free.

There are a couple lines used by brothers and sisters alike who are in favor of polygny. They say things to the first wife/family like, "Want for your brother/sister, what you want for yourself", "You don't love Allah, swt, if you don't support your husband performing an act of righteousness by supporting another wife", "Read the Qur'an". "Fear Allah", "You should be honored to have such a husband willing to take another wife"...and the crap just keeps spewing from their mouths.

My rant is over, but that is why many dislike it for what it has become because of those who abuse it. When polygyny isn't abused and is Islamically practiced, then yes, it's a rather beautiful thing. But its when it doesn't that makes me sick and ticked the hell off.


shadha-

[Revert]

Thats a pretty long rant shadha...i think its great that there people who do witness polygyny in America, I think other should share thier experiences of polygyny in the west in order to learn from it.

Thanks for sharing shadha

[shadha]

Sorry, I didn't know it was that long until I posted it.




shadha-

[Revert]

Originally Posted by shadha

Sorry, I didn't know it was that long until I posted it.




shadha-

No probs it was interesting to read.

[zakk]

Originally Posted by shadha

Zam: Anyway, can someone explain what about the modern day makes polygyny bad?

sak: This is what I was wondering. I think that primarily it's because many people today, including muslims, find it distasteful.

It's not that polygyny itself is bad, it's how it practiced and wrongfully encouraged in the modern day Western society that make people cringe and develop a great disliking for it. Growing up, I didn't just dislike it, I despised it. You hear all the figures on what the percentage of actual polygamous marriages are in the world and at first it seems like a very miniscule amount compared to the total population of Muslims. However, for some of us, like myself, polygyny is a very common thing. Growing up, it seemed that every year or two, one family in the community got torn apart due to the fathers taking another wife.

It's not common across the board- I find that it's the most common in black Muslim American families. I was just explaining to my father [a black Muslim American lol] how black Muslim American brothers have THE biggest con of the century going on against their faith. They are Pimping the Din. Each group has their thing and the Black Muslim Americans have their thang and they are just milking it for all its worths, while totally ignoring the fact that the majority of times it comes back to not just bite but to gnaw at their asses.

Follow the laws of the land unless they contradict Islam. Polygyny is not an obligation, it's not even encouraged, so the Western law against polygamy is not unIslamic and therefore should be upheld. I can't speak for other countries, but in the US, polygamy is illegal. From Utah to Alabama to Hawaii and every territory owned by the US, it is absolutely unquestionably illegal.

So one may think, to hell with the 'kafir' laws, for Allah, swt, laws reigns over it. Oki. No not really, reason already given above, but oki. So they go against the laws of their land, which in actuality is going against Allah, swt, and take a second wife. Now, since the land, America, does not allow for polygamous marriages, the court of law will not acknowledge the second wife as a wife but instead only as a mistress and her children bastards. Society at large will recognize her as a mistress and the children from that marriage as bastards.

Only in some instances, such as with a commonwealth state where religious marriages often become legal' after a certain amount of years, will the second wife eventually be recognized as a second wife, and if that is the case, then he will be jailed.

Not only do the women and children suffer from such grave titles, but they legally have nothing going for them. In the event of death, they aren't entitled to get any of his government funds- nothing.

Before I even continue, right there is an enormous injustice between the wives. One is seen as the wife the other a mistress, one is legally married and thus benefiting from what comes with that status and the other is not and will not. How is the equality?

Continuing...so you have these supped up religious down with the Din brothers who think they'll be clever and not marry either of the women legally but just religiously. Need I say more?

Just when you think it couldn't possibly get any worse than this- these brothers go and try to get on welfare. Are you KIDDING me?? They send each wife down at a time, but of course they are asked who the father of the children are...they can't tell the truth if they want the welfare money, so they lie and say they don't know. Mighty honorable, eh?

So you have this family which was once one until the father goes and gets the second wife which brings havoc to the first family. Time and time again, it's the same story, the first family pleading and crying with their father not to do it, the brothers in the community who already made the mistake [and now are living with it- some children disown their fathers, others lose all respect, many go buckwild in their behavior, and the dysfunction just continues] are pleading with the father not to do it, the women of the community are in an uproar and take it out on their own husbands, but despite it all he does it anyway. Then usually less than a year, no more than three, the second marriage fails and ends up in divorce. Though of course, you have the communities where polygyny is accepted and encouraged [think back to the welfare brothers], so some fathers get away scratch free.

There are a couple lines used by brothers and sisters alike who are in favor of polygny. They say things to the first wife/family like, "Want for your brother/sister, what you want for yourself", "You don't love Allah, swt, if you don't support your husband performing an act of righteousness by supporting another wife", "Read the Qur'an". "Fear Allah", "You should be honored to have such a husband willing to take another wife"...and the crap just keeps spewing from their mouths.

My rant is over, but that is why many dislike it for what it has become because of those who abuse it. When polygyny isn't abused and is Islamically practiced, then yes, it's a rather beautiful thing. But its when it doesn't that makes me sick and ticked the hell off.


shadha-

Totally know what you're talking about, goes back to the whole went to high school in an African American Muslim community thing. I knew of an imam who was milking the welfare thing with his wives. It was not cool. And the second generation was kinda jaded.

[nectar]

I once met these two middle-aged ladies, one desi and the other a white convert. Their story was that the desi muslim converted the white sister, because of which she was ostracized by her family and friends, and was left alone. The desi sister then made a huge sacrifice and asked her own husband to marry her.
Alhamdulillah they seemed close.

[IbnAbdullah]

I think the problem is not with polygyny but it is in the faith of people. I guess people who live among disbelievers question their faith from the PUSH by the disbelievers. Well, no one is requesting you to be a Muslim or remain a Muslim, if you find Islam unlogical then go where you like, fine, no problem and if you want to enter Islam then kindly study Islam and if this is for you then embrace it and after you have entered Islam don't question it please because you have already questioned it before entering. Islam is not like Raw Knowledge which you call science and knowledge which keeps on changing, what you call science today maybe considred rubbish tomorrow, as many theories of science of the past are considered wrong today.

As for polygyny, you will find lots of Disbelievers who cheat on their wives provided they do have a wife since most of them can't afford to keep a wife. So they sleep with more than one woman and there they do justice with them, right?
Every Kafir who sleeps with many women other than his wife or girlfriend is fine, just and lovely, but if a Muslim keeps 4 wives without cheating the whole world, that gives a heart attack to the band of justice. What a stupid and narrow mind!

There are situations in the real world where you have to marry another woman in order to support her because you believe it's you only who can protect the woman, because you love her, but since you don't want to divorce your first wife as you love her too and you have kids from her, Islam is a blessing there as well, it allows you to marry this other lady. There are cases where the first wife is not able to have babies, there you have the right to have babies because Allah has granted you with this blessing, you can marry if you like. There are people who are very rich, they can afford more than one woman, they can marry if they want to try more women. Isn't that better for them than to go to sluts and prostitutes or illegal sexual relations with someone else's wives?

And where does Islam say it is obligatory upon you to marry 4 women? Then why the heck you guys are crying? Please shut up and go hang from your houses upside down, thanks!

O yes, the way you can do justice with your kids, you can also do justice with your wives, and doing justice means try to do justice, in fact we human beings can't be as just as our Lord is, we can at least try.

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by IbnAbdullah

I think the problem is not with polygyny but it is in the faith of people. I guess people who live among disbelievers question their faith from the PUSH by the disbelievers. Well, no one is requesting you to be a Muslim or remain a Muslim, if you find Islam unlogical then go where you like, fine, no problem and if you want to enter Islam then kindly study Islam and if this is for you then embrace it and after you have entered Islam don't question it please because you have already questioned it before entering. Islam is not like Raw Knowledge which you call science and knowledge which keeps on changing, what you call science today maybe considred rubbish tomorrow, as many theories of science of the past are considered wrong today.

Actually, I'm constantly questioning.

Originally Posted by IbnAbdullah

As for polygyny, you will find lots of Disbelievers who cheat on their wives provided they do have a wife since most of them can't afford to keep a wife. So they sleep with more than one woman and there they do justice with them, right?
Every Kafir who sleeps with many women other than his wife or girlfriend is fine, just and lovely, but if a Muslim keeps 4 wives without cheating the whole world, that gives a heart attack to the band of justice. What a stupid and narrow mind!

Your mind is the one that's narrow if that's how black-and-white you think it is. Either cheat on your wife with another woman who you don't marry or cheat on your wife with another woman who you marry.

Originally Posted by IbnAbdullah

There are situations in the real world where you have to marry another woman in order to support her because you believe it's you only who can protect the woman, because you love her, but since you don't want to divorce your first wife as you love her too and you have kids from her, Islam is a blessing there as well, it allows you to marry this other lady. There are cases where the first wife is not able to have babies, there you have the right to have babies because Allah has granted you with this blessing, you can marry if you like. There are people who are very rich, they can afford more than one woman, they can marry if they want to try more women. Isn't that better for them than to go to sluts and prostitutes or illegal sexual relations with someone else's wives?

In the real world, oftentimes, women are able to support and protect themselves just fine. And why would you love another woman if you're already married?

If you can't have kids, you can always adopt. You know, the importance placed in our religion on caring for orphans.

And are women clothes that you want to "try" to see if they fit? A marriage isn't a trial period anyway. But what is it about another woman that one would want to try?

Originally Posted by IbnAbdullah

And where does Islam say it is obligatory upon you to marry 4 women? Then why the heck you guys are crying? Please shut up and go hang from your houses upside down, thanks!

'Cause of people who say it's encouraged or something.
As for hanging from our houses upside down... uh, okay.

Originally Posted by IbnAbdullah

O yes, the way you can do justice with your kids, you can also do justice with your wives, and doing justice means try to do justice, in fact we human beings can't be as just as our Lord is, we can at least try.

Right, so then why does Allah say you'll never be able to do justice?

[Variable]

^ And if it turned out you were sterile... you'd be cool with letting your wife go to marry some other dude?

[nectar]

Right, so then why does Allah say you'll never be able to do justice?

Please, please tell me where?