[shadha]

theonlyone: dont wanna get too priesty on you..but a believer(Mu^min) should be free of all form of
evil such as selfishness. if it isn't the greed in a woman not to share her husband and
or her 'belongings knowing that her husband would make a positive difference in someone
else' life. then what is it? what else would create fear in her of losing him? or having all..?
as they say...greed is he root of all evil, remember this and you'll be a better person..to each their own..thats how i c it.

Greed?

I'm curious, if another woman wanted to share panties with you, what would you say?


shadha-

[Variable]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

Whoever said anything about sex? Plenty of guys are getting plenty from their wife, and if they marry a widow or divorcee then yes, it can be, and often has been, for altruistic reasons such as providing emotional / moral / financial support. What if she's unattractive, or doesn't want any? Its not always about sex unless women wanna make-believe that it is.

So then why not just help her out? why marry her?

If it becomes hard, factual reality that there is an increasing women-men ratio, lets say it becomes 10 women for 1 man in a certain community ... and it doesn't mean 10 eligible women for one eligible bachelor, but like 10 moms / daughters / sisters / cousins / unmarried girls, etc .... essentially if the situation becomes such that unmarried women / divorcees / widows are having a hard time finding men to marry ...

If a nuclear bomb landed on a giant international man convention in the desert somewhere? In any case, 6 out of those ten would be SOL.

Maybe find a guy from China... they're having a bit of a guy surplus these days.

[Jaysh]

I contend that there is ALWAYS a shortage of men, and ALWAYS a SURPLUS of women. People keep pointing to the statistic that there is a 1:1 male to female ratio, but we are not talking about just this. Rather, it is about eligibility. A good portion of men are incarcerated, another good portion are too poor to get married, another good portion are gay, another good portion don't want to get married, another good portion are sinful fornicators, etc.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Jaysh

I contend that there is ALWAYS a shortage of men, and ALWAYS a SURPLUS of women. People keep pointing to the statistic that there is a 1:1 male to female ratio, but we are not talking about just this. Rather, it is about eligibility. A good portion of men are incarcerated, another good portion are too poor to get married, another good portion are gay, another good portion don't want to get married, another good portion are sinful fornicators, etc.

Yeh, but for every gay guy, or poor guy... there's probably a gay girl or poor girl.

And I'm gonna take a shot in the dark here, but I'll bet there are probably a lot of girls who'd rather take their chances with a fornicator, poor, sinful dude than be number two or three of a rich and powerful pious dude. Or just stay single.

[the_only_one]

Originally Posted by shadha

theonlyone: dont wanna get too priesty on you..but a believer(Mu^min) should be free of all form of
evil such as selfishness. if it isn't the greed in a woman not to share her husband and
or her 'belongings knowing that her husband would make a positive difference in someone
else' life. then what is it? what else would create fear in her of losing him? or having all..?
as they say...greed is he root of all evil, remember this and you'll be a better person..to each their own..thats how i c it.

Greed?

I'm curious, if another woman wanted to share panties with you, what would you say?


shadha-

...are we alluding to STDs now? this adds another dimension to this topic. [health and well being]..

[Jaysh]

Originally Posted by Variable

Yeh, but for every gay guy, or poor guy... there's probably a gay girl or poor girl.

I knew you would say this, and in fact I was waiting for you to say this, so I could say:

In Islam, the imperative is for a woman to be supported and cared for. A woman needs to get married, so she can have a mahrem, who becomes the maintainer and protector. Meanwhile, a man does not have this need or necessity. Therefore, if there are some unmatched men, then that is ok. But unmatched women is not a good thing, because they need mehrems, whereas men do not have that need.

And I'm gonna take a shot in the dark here, but I'll bet there are probably a lot of girls who'd rather take their chances with a fornicator, poor, sinful dude than be number two or three of a rich and powerful pious dude. Or just stay single.

Yes, but this is just due to cultural influences and brainwashing by the Western forces of kufr.

[the_only_one]

Originally Posted by Jaysh

Yes, but this is just due to cultural influences and brainwashing by the Western forces of kufr.

10 charc

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Jaysh

I knew you would say this, and in fact I was waiting for you to say this, so I could say:

In Islam, the imperative is for a woman to be supported and cared for. A woman needs to get married, so she can have a mahrem, who becomes the maintainer and protector. Meanwhile, a man does not have this need or necessity. Therefore, if there are some unmatched men, then that is ok. But unmatched women is not a good thing, because they need mehrems, whereas men do not have that need.

Well sucks to be them.

Yes, but this is just due to cultural influences and brainwashing by the Western forces of kufr.

muahahaha

*does doctor evil thing.

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by shadha

When you say marriage, sex is inevitable. Would they not consummate their marriage? Why would my husband want to bed a woman who he finds unattractive only because it would boost her moral? And I don't buy that she wouldn't want some. She'll get to thinking that her old ass still got it going on and hence why she was able to marry a younger man, a younger man who already had a wife at that. So no. That's oki. I'll hook the sister up with some hotline numbers and some self-help books.

First of all, as I mentioned before its not all about sex, so stop putting that front and center. It may be the most important thing to you, and that's fine, but its not what this discussion is centered around.

Secondly, its actually not that cut and dry as you're trying to make it out to be. Many people have marriages that are severely lacking in intimacy, and many women just don't have the drive and libido. Others are really so consumed by other factors that they just can't be worked up emotionally enough to actually want any.

Other marriages are marriages of political convenience or of opportunity or of money and public appearance. Think of all the marriages you've seen of blonde bombshells married to some old rich fart in his 80s ... I'm pretty sure as hell they're not heating anything up behind doors. She's just in it to get his money, and he gets to have some nice eye-candy around; or a girl to drape over his arm when he goes to some charity ball or big dinner gala.

And again, sorry, but that's not my problem if she allows the attitudes of others to control her life, especially while she's living in this country.

what the hell?

That doesn't make sense, really. If its the men ... who are refusing to marry her because of various reasons I mentioned above ... then how is that defined as "allowing the attitudes of others to control her life?"

Is she going to force some guy to marry her? Or is she going to pull one outta thin air?

This I can believe. Some are some aren't. However, there are also plenty of divorced with kids guys- why can't she get down with them? Just because she got divorced, doesn't mean she has to immediately jump into the marriage game again.

Yes, she can and should marry a guy who has kids of his own and is divorced. What I was pointing out in additional comments is that such things are easier said than done.

They should fast and continue making dua.

Again, I was talking about situations where its completely different.

Example: Lets say its a guy and he knows a divorcee or widow whose ailing parents were very good friends with his own parents, now deceased. She's got a very full load taking care of her child or children, and her parent[s] at the same time. Because the guy knows them so well because of his own late parents, he wants to help them out, physically and financially. And because we're Muslims, we don't do the whole "dump your parents in a seniors' home and move on" kinda thing. So he helps out those folks as much as he can. If the mahram thing becomes an issue, or if he helps out with the kids as well, in that situation I think it'd just be easier for the guy and the girl and her parents if he became part of the family via marriage.

Again as I mentioned, many marriages are done for sake of political or temporal expediency. This would be one such a case.

Now, are you all still going to be so myopic and near-sighted as to let misguided jealousy blind you or make you upset?

Why can't women move beyond their insecurities and strive to be better than they already are? Its not always about you or even her. Sometimes bigger issues like social stability and final accountability are far more paramount.

I'm curious, if another woman wanted to share panties with you, what would you say?

Its not all about who's in his bed, like I said.

Originally Posted by Variable

So then why not just help her out? why marry her?

Mahram issues.

No offense, but you're not Muslim so you wouldn't understand.

And I'm gonna take a shot in the dark here, but I'll bet there are probably a lot of girls who'd rather take their chances with a fornicator, poor, sinful dude than be number two or three of a rich and powerful pious dude. Or just stay single.

I think there's a lot more girls that would be willing to settle with the rich guy because of the money and stability.

[shadha]

Ibn: Now, are you still going to be so myopic and near-sighted as to let misguided jealousy blind you or make you upset? Why can't women move beyond their insecurities and strive to be better than they already are?

Here's the problem: "If the mahram thing becomes an issue, or if he helps out with the kids as well,"

Explain to me exactly how the mahram thing will become an issue. I already stated that I would get a job to assist in finances, but if she needs childcare, then I will help out there. I'm sure other sisters would do the same. So again, what issues?

And why are you setting up scenarios and asking the women of this board questions if you're just going to belittle and demean us for our replies that don't fit into what you deem as righteous?

Cut it out already. If the first wife doesn't want a second wife, then the single women needs to back down. You don't go and ruin the marriage of another woman for your own pleasure. How is that righteous?

You know what. Call it greedy. Call it jealousy. Call it insecurity. I don't care what you call it because at the end of the day, I'll be the one and only woman bedding my husband. Or as you put it, I'll be the one and only woman receiving moral, emotional, and financial help from my husband.

So it's whatever.


shadha-

[Variable]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

Now, are you all still going to be so myopic and near-sighted as to let misguided jealousy blind you or make you upset?

Why can't women move beyond their insecurities and strive to be better than they already are? Its not always about you or even her. Sometimes bigger issues like social stability and final accountability are far more paramount.

You asked for girls' honest opinions, and not you're trying to make them feel 'near-sighted', 'misguided', 'jealous' etc for giving them.

Mahram issues.

No offense, but you're not Muslim so you wouldn't understand.

Nope. But I'm learning

I think there's a lot more girls that would be willing to settle with the rich guy because of the money and stability.

Yeh, like those blonde bombshells you mentioned earlier.

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by Variable

You asked for girls' honest opinions, and not you're trying to make them feel 'near-sighted', 'misguided', 'jealous' etc for giving them.

Its a discussion. People are exchanging thoughts and ideas on XYZ subject. I'm not expecting them to arbitrarily agree with me or vice versa.

The jealousy issue is universal and eternal. Even Prophet Muhammad's wives are on the record plainly and clearly as being envious or jealous of each other, so it's normal and expected.

Yeh, like those blonde bombshells you mentioned earlier.

Touche.

[shadha]

Ibn: Its not all about who's in his bed, like I said.

That's EXACTLY what it's about otherwise there is no reason for marriage. You keep bringing up these imaginary Mehram issues- what issues? The community can easily come together to assist in childcare and finances of the woman's family. So what now? She does not need to marry another woman's husband in order to attain help. If she is looking for moral and emotional support then she needs to look elsewhere, like maybe perhaps possibly at the single men. Go figure. And don't give me the excuse of there being a dramatic ratio difference because we're are certainly not at that point yet where it should even be up for debate.


shadha-