[Jetmir]

Originally Posted by Aryan_

Why is Arabic so important in Islam anyway? Why aren't Muslims allowed to pray in other languages for instance, or translate the Koran. Allah is all knowing and understands all languages.

No one has ever told me why, other than the last prophet was an Arab.

People can pray/make dua/supplicate in any language, of course Allah understands all. Salah must be in Arabic because the Qur'an cannot be translated, when its translated it is not the Quran anymore, its just its meaning. If some american muslim traveled to china or some other country, and the time for pray comes, he hears the same adhan , goes to the mosque, and the imam there prays the same way and says the same things as the african muslims, european muslims, etc.

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by Revert

Wait? You one one hand dismiss certain names even though they have Islamic meanings, yet in this post you say any name is fine as long as it has a good meaning? Which is it because you are confusing me

Far be it from me to make a halal thing haram. I've said lots of times in this thread that my wanting to give my (hypothetical) kids traditionally Muslim names is a personal preference because I would want them to be easily identified as Muslims. Also, because I'm Pakistani and I could easily give them names from their heritage that are traditionally Muslim names.

I don't understand why anybody would want to name their kids a name that's not traditionally Muslim. Your kid isn't going to be able to be identified as Muslim by their name. If that doesn't bug you, okay, fine. But if somebody brings it up, you shouldn't whine about Arabs taking over Islam either (considering Islam originated in Arabia, and therefore many Islamic names are Arabic). It's fine to be proud of your cultural heritage, but there is such a thing as Islamic heritage too, and the Arab culture is a large part of that.

[farah]

Originally Posted by sak01

I didn't get the bold part. A Mu'min is a special category of Muslim whose attributes are given in the Quran and Hadith while a Muslim is anyone who holds the fundamental belief in Islam. No one can be a Mu'min while rejecting Islam.

And good and bad is only that which is decreed good/bad by Allah(swt) nothing else.

People who reject Islam are doing a very bad thing. The ultimate bad deed. If they do anything good from an Islamic point view, (for example, feeding the poor) from what I've learned they will be rewarded in this dunya for they did it for the dunya but they will have no reward in the hereafter.

People who don't receive the message are a special category as mentioned before but if you're saying that they can be Mu'min I don't see how that's possible since they don't have the specified attributes

one of them: "None of you will truly believe until I am more beloved to him than his father, his son and all of mankind." (Bukhaari, Muslim and others)

And yes, it's not so black and white. Muslims are divided into Mu'min, Awliya etc on one hand and Munafiqs on the other. In between you have a variety of different people leaning more towards nifaq these days then the other way. But still you have the ummah and those that are not part of it and just to avoid derailing the thread any more than I have, what I was originally saying is that many new converts like to take names that are prevalent in the ummah to show that they are now part of it and no longer part of the disbelievers.

from Dr. Jackson:

A man at the time of the Prophet (s) used to drink wine and would get caught and was whipped. He would drink again and be whipped again. One day they caught him drunk again and brought him before the Prophet (s) and after punishing began to curse him. Do you know what the Prophet (s) said to them? He (s) said: "Do not curse him because he loves Allah and the Prophet." There are weak Believers and strong Believers and not all Believers are strong. This does not mean that they are not Believers. And this is what the Prophet (s) has taught us.

The Etiquette of Disagreement

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by Timbit

I don't understand why anybody would want to name their kids a name that's not traditionally Muslim. Your kid isn't going to be able to be identified as Muslim by their name.

If history repeats itself - and we believe it generally does - then just as there was a time outside the Arabian peninsula proper when many new Muslims had non-arabish names and eventually those names are now regarded as "traditionally" Muslim ... so too will there be a time when those very same names you regard nowadays as non-traditional will in fact come to be regarded as common names amongst Muslims.

[farah]

to quote shakespeare, "a rose by any other name would smell as sweet"

which, in my opinion, takes on a special meaning in light of poetic stylings of outkast:

I know you'd like to think your s**t don't stank
But lean a little bit closer
See that roses really smell like boo-boo-boo
Yeah, roses really smell like boo-boo-boo

so simple. so eloquent.

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

If history repeats itself - and we believe it generally does - then just as there was a time outside the Arabian peninsula proper when many new Muslims had non-arabish names and eventually those names are now regarded as "traditionally" Muslim ... so too will there be a time when those very same names you regard nowadays as non-traditional will in fact come to be regarded as common names amongst Muslims.

Right, I acknowleged that possibility down there too.
If only you'd read my posts.

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by Timbit

Right, I acknowleged that possibility down there too.
If only you'd read my posts.

Oh my. Sorry for staying the course.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by sak01

Well, the world is divided between muslims and non-muslims; those that are enlightened with at least the sesame seeds worth of belief in the oneness of Almighty God and the finality of the prophethood in the Messenger (salallahu alaihi wassallam). And those that are in the darkness for whatever reason.

Thanks for illustrating my point on divisive tribalism.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by sak01

So the likes of Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller, Shaykh Hamza Yusuf, Yusuf Estes, Abdur Raheem Green have all done something that is detrimental to being a human being and being a Muslim?

What you gave is a literal translation of the word Mu'min. However, in Islam a Mu'min is considered to be a special category of Muslim with special attributes which are given in the Quran and Hadith and which clearly only very few Muslims possess. I can link you to some articles but I think it's best for you to ask scholars that you would normally refer to yourself.

I did say I wouldn't do that because I feel its detrimental for me..if i didn't make that clear then I apologise.

A word is a word my friend and used in different contexts it means slightly different things that a basic Lingusitic rule. You can link me to some articles, that would be nice

Far be it from me to make a halal thing haram. I've said lots of times in this thread that my wanting to give my (hypothetical) kids traditionally Muslim names is a personal preference because I would want them to be easily identified as Muslims. Also, because I'm Pakistani and I could easily give them names from their heritage that are traditionally Muslim names.

I don't understand why anybody would want to name their kids a name that's not traditionally Muslim. Your kid isn't going to be able to be identified as Muslim by their name. If that doesn't bug you, okay, fine. But if somebody brings it up, you shouldn't whine about Arabs taking over Islam either (considering Islam originated in Arabia, and therefore many Islamic names are Arabic). It's fine to be proud of your cultural heritage, but there is such a thing as Islamic heritage too, and the Arab culture is a large part of that.

My point is that there the only true traditional Muslim names are the ones that deonte servitude to Allah those are 3abdal names.

ALso your point about Islam originating in Arabia is moot as many Converts from the time of the Rasool kept their pre-Islamic non Arab names. I wasn't whining about Arabs taking over Islam, however its wise to recognise that not one specific culture is superior to another. There is no such thing as Islamic culture in my opinion (which is supported by a few scholars). You should read the article Ali Qazi posted a few pages back, it explains the situatioin in relation to Islamic history starting at the time of the revalation of the Qu'ran.

Again you and others seem to focus too much on the Lingusitic aspects of names and their relation to being Traditional Islamic names.

[shadha]

Revert: I wasn't whining about Arabs taking over Islam, however its wise to recognise that not one specific culture is superior to another. There is no such thing as Islamic culture in my opinion (which is supported by a few scholars).

Agreed.


shadha-

[jinnzaman]

Look the solution is very simple: if you want to stop the Arabization of Islam, just kill all the Arabs.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

Look the solution is very simple: if you want to stop the Arabization of Islam, just kill all the Arabs.

I'd rather kill all the Jinns...

[Variable]

Originally Posted by sak01

I don't know what you mean by divisive tribalism. I was making an obvious statement of fact which you feel is counter-productive to humanity. I don't see how.

Well firstly I think it's important to point out that nothing regarding faith is obvious, and certainly not factual.

But dividing humanity along lines of those 'enlightened' ones who have a monopoly on truth and salvation has long been the vehicle for dehumanization of those outside. Another reason why I'm not personally too big on Abrahamic religions, which have managed to institutionalize and put a divine face on the importance of 'us and them' like no other.

I know in practice this isn't a component of all Muslims' beliefs (whether it should be or not, I don't know), but the Abrahamic faiths have produced more of their fair share of people who think they have all the answers regarding how the universe works and the nature of those outside their beliefs. I don't see that as a positive thing.

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by Revert

My point is that there the only true traditional Muslim names are the ones that deonte servitude to Allah those are 3abdal names.

ALso your point about Islam originating in Arabia is moot as many Converts from the time of the Rasool kept their pre-Islamic non Arab names. I wasn't whining about Arabs taking over Islam, however its wise to recognise that not one specific culture is superior to another. There is no such thing as Islamic culture in my opinion (which is supported by a few scholars). You should read the article Ali Qazi posted a few pages back, it explains the situatioin in relation to Islamic history starting at the time of the revalation of the Qu'ran.

Again you and others seem to focus too much on the Lingusitic aspects of names and their relation to being Traditional Islamic names.

There is definitely such a thing as Islamic culture and you don't need a scholar to tell you that. It's an Islamic civilization basically: a culture that has been defined by Islam. Also, I never said any culture is s