The Arabization of Islam

[displaced]

Originally Posted by Zam

We should at least understand that it isn't random that Allah chose the Arabs for His universal message and greatest Prophet (sallahu alayhi wa salam), as well as the Arabic language for the Qur'an. You have to at least hold the language as being an essential part of Islam, and as scholars say, there isn't any language that comes close to Arabic in eloquence.

Further than that, what is part of the deen and what is not isn't our responsibility to decide, rather we should look to the people who have the deepest knowledge on the life of Rasulullah to make that determination. We may think wearing a turban is an old Arab custom and not a part of the Sunnah, but there are explicit hadith which make it clear that wearing a kufi and a turban are a Sunnah.

If you really want to understand the issue, then look at some of the examples of the Sahaba and auliya of Allah and the extents they went to follow the Sunnah. It is narrated about Abdullah ibn Umar (radiallahu anhu) that he used to go and sit in the same places where Rasulullah would go to use the bathroom, just because Rasulullah went to those places. Imam Ahmed, once when he was being pursued, hid in the house of someone for three days, and when he was asked why he did not stay longer, he said that three days was the amount of time Rasulullah hid in the cave of Thaur. But these are extreme examples, though it just goes to show you their zeal in trying to be just like Rasulullah compared to our disposition of trying to whittle down the Sunnah to just a few things.

I agree with you, couldn't have said it better...not so much on the rest, though.

[freedomlover]

Originally Posted by Variable

That's not true at all. It was more a case of Muslims' colonization of surrounding territory that resulted in Arabs with lighter skin. That and the fact that white girls fetched a high price in Arab slave markets.

LOL, before the muslim arabs conquered a single country there were white people in their midst, even in pakistan there are white people with blue eyes.
The prophet (PBUH) was white.
And what are you talking about slave markets, why you slipping that in? It's like that's the main reason some arabs are white LOL.
On the whole arabs have been colonised many more times over history than what you're making it out to look like.
They got colonised by the ottomans, French, English, and they're still being invaded and conquered till this day.

[Aryan_]

Originally Posted by freedomlover

The prophet (PBUH) was white.

No he wasn't

[freedomlover]

Volume 2, Book 17, Number 122:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Dinar:
My father said, "I heard Ibn 'Umar reciting the poetic verses of Abu Talib: And a white (person) (i.e. the Prophet) who is requested to pray for rain and who takes care of the orphans and is the guardian of widows."

Volume 1, Book 3, Number 63:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
While we were sitting with the Prophet in the mosque, a man came riding on a camel. He made his camel kneel down in the mosque, tied its foreleg and then said: "Who amongst you is Muhammad?" At that time the Prophet was sitting amongst us (his companions) leaning on his arm. We replied, "This white man reclining on his arm." The an then addressed him, "O Son of 'Abdul Muttalib."

[Aryan_]

You really believe a man from Saudi Arabia (from the Hejaz no less) would be white?

The great holy Arab fighter Al-Zarrar aka 'the naked warrior' would call and taunt the Greek Byzantine commanders as 'pale faces'. It would be awfully hypocritical of him if his prophet was a whitey too.

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by Aryan_

You really believe a man from Saudi Arabia (from the Hejaz no less) would be white?

The great holy Arab fighter Al-Zarrar aka 'the naked warrior' would call and taunt the Greek Byzantine commanders as 'pale faces'. It would be awfully hypocritical of him if his prophet was a whitey too.

The descriptions of him, describe him as having a reddish complexion.

[freedomlover]

Originally Posted by Aryan_

You really believe a man from Saudi Arabia (from the Hejaz no less) would be white?

The great holy Arab fighter Al-Zarrar aka 'the naked warrior' would call and taunt the Greek Byzantine commanders as 'pale faces'. It would be awfully hypocritical of him if his prophet was a whitey too.

LOL Yeah but we're talking about the prophet (PBUH) not some naked guy arab you like to read about, so what the hell kinda point was that!!!
I showed you the hadiths that prove the prophet (PBUH) was white.

Originally Posted by Kaminyu

The descriptions of him, describe him as having a reddish complexion.

Exactly!

[Variable]

Originally Posted by freedomlover

LOL, before the muslim arabs conquered a single country there were white people in their midst, even in pakistan there are white people with blue eyes.
The prophet (PBUH) was white.
And what are you talking about slave markets, why you slipping that in? It's like that's the main reason some arabs are white LOL.
On the whole arabs have been colonised many more times over history than what you're making it out to look like.
They got colonised by the ottomans, French, English, and they're still being invaded and conquered till this day.

Why am I "slipping" that in? Because the reason you gave was pretty dumb so I thought I might add something a little closer to what likely happened.

If you think slavery wasn't a major inroad of different ethnicities into the Arab world, along with the conquest of surrounding territory, you're deluding yourself.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

plenty of indian and pakistani muslims give their kids persian names, not arabic names. and plenty name thier kids arabic names. in malaysia, indonesia, turkey, iran, even africa, people name thier kids according to names which is found in thier language. however, much of the english language is based on christian beliefs, and many names, such as mathew, mark, luke, james are in fact christian names, since there is no Muslim equivalent. Many irish have irish names, sean, tara etc. and then italians use many roman names, such as anthony or julius. i have an arabic name and im very proud of it, because im named for a prophet. i wouldnt want to name my kids anglicized names, because we should be proud of who we are. i live in a heavily irish town, and the irish-americans name thier kids according to thier langaguge, background and culture. Islam in itself is our culture. and this notion of 'arabization', is total nonsense. Its nothing more than rabble rousing found among Hindu fanatics who made this useless claim all the time. But are many arabic names 'Islamic'? No its not, theres no such thing. When the first people converted to Islam, they retained thier original arabic names, which was given to them during the pagan times.

Also, many African-Americans, name thier kids Muslim names, such as ahmed. The pronounce it as 'aahmaad' or 'jamal'. (malcom JAMAL warner). Im assuming that this is among the secular, non-practicing christian african-americans. Many associate Muslim or Arabic names as being African names.

I hate to disagree with you bro but Matthew and John are anglicized versions of Hebrew names. Mark was the surname of John Mark, Mark is a Greek name meaning of Mars. John is Yohhaan in Hebrew Yahweh is Gracious and is Yahya in Arabic. Matthew was Matti'yahu in Hebrew means Gift from God and is Ataullah in Arabic. Luke is a native Greek name and literally means someone from the town Luciania It was probably his surname as with the Disciple Mark.

Many Turks name thier kids of ther prohpets my Brother in law has the same name as you.

You do contradict yourself as in previous debates you scoffed the notion of following the sunnah and have labelled people who do take Islam as their culture and follow the sunnah to be "wahabbis"

[IbnMardhiyah]

Ditto to what Revert said above.

The only names in arabiy that I would want to keep for my children are names that begin with 3abd, because those are names Allah loves best. If I want my kids to be attached to their deen and to be proud of their heritage, those names are the best, hands down.

But after that, as many of us have said in this thread so many times, keeping arab / arabicized names doesn't warrant greater merit than non-arabicized names. So, I could give my son two names - one would be a title like Abdullah or Abdur-Rahman, etc. and the second name could be Muhammad, Ahmad, Bilal, Salman, Umar, Husayn..... OR it could also be Tom, Jack, Marcus, Victor, Jiggylicious ... like, whatever.

How the heck is anyone going to tell me, that two names in different languages that mean the EXACT SAME THING - such as Mansour and Victor - are not equal in the sight of Muslims or Allah? I can teach my kid Victor arabiy and he can speak it just as fly as any homeboy from Syria or Algeria or Yemen, because yes, arabiy is the language of Islam, but when it comes to names, as long as it carried a good meaning, then you can't discriminate against it.

For those of you that mentioned arab names mentioned in the Qur'an and that Allah honored those names - those names weren't always the exact name of that person; in the Qur'an or ahadith its been rendered in arabiy, that's it.

For example, Dhul-Qarnayn's real name wasn't that, nor was that his title since he and his people didn't speak arabiy - but that's how God referred to him in the Qur'an. Yes we have plenty of role models and heroes with arab names but we've had a lot more with non-arab names.

So why are you being discriminatory? Being a good role model is not the exclusive domain of people with arab / arabicized names.

[Variable]

Here's a quickly googled website if anyone wants to have a look at name meanings:

Behind the Name - the Etymology and History of First Names

[Jetmir]

Originally Posted by freedomlover

Volume 2, Book 17, Number 122:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Dinar:
My father said, "I heard Ibn 'Umar reciting the poetic verses of Abu Talib: And a white (person) (i.e. the Prophet) who is requested to pray for rain and who takes care of the orphans and is the guardian of widows."

Volume 1, Book 3, Number 63:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
While we were sitting with the Prophet in the mosque, a man came riding on a camel. He made his camel kneel down in the mosque, tied its foreleg and then said: "Who amongst you is Muhammad?" At that time the Prophet was sitting amongst us (his companions) leaning on his arm. We replied, "This white man reclining on his arm." The an then addressed him, "O Son of 'Abdul Muttalib."

The Arabs considered white those that were not dark skinned. The Europeans were called yellow, not white. (If I remember correctly)

[Jamroll]

The Prophet Muhammad (saw) was probably of a fairer complexion than many of his contemporaries, but I haven't see anything written that would suggest that he literally was a Caucasian man, or similar to the appearance of a Caucasian. If I remember correctly I've seen him described as having "wheatish" skin, which implies someone of a considerably fair complexion.

The Prophet described Isa ibn Maryam (as) (Jesus) as having a "ruddy" complexion (which implies he had pinkish cheeks), and this would be consistent since Isa ibn Maryam lived in Palestine, whereas Muhammad (saw) lived in the Hijaz where the climate is quite different.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

For those of you that mentioned arab names mentioned in the Qur'an and that Allah honored those names - those names weren't always the exact name of that person; in the Qur'an or ahadith its been rendered in arabiy, that's it.

Word..many of the Hebrew Prophets mentioned in the Quran ahd Arabized Hebrew names. Ibrahim(Abraham/Avraham), Nuh(Noah/Naoch), Yahya(John/Yohhaan), Isa(Jesus/Yehoshua) etc etc are all Arabized Hebrew names.

[MossadConspiracy]

alot of people dont like arabs, thats what it boils down to

ws