Sufi Circles

[psychoteddybear]

Salam,

Any thoughts? I am interested in what Sufis do and believe in, etc...am I a transgressor for being curious? I found some Sufi/dhikrullah (?) circles in NYC and was thinking about checking one out...I don't know much about them and was curious...

any thoughts would be appreciated, negative or positive, as long as you're not cussing me out for being curious about this.

wa salam

[AbuAlAbbas]

Praise be to Allaah.

It is important for us to understand, firstly, that the words “Tasawwuf” and “Sufism” are modern terms which refer to something that is not automatically approved of in sharee’ah as the words eemaan (faith), Islam and ihsaan are. Neither is it automatically condemned like the words kufr, fusooq (immorality) and ‘asyaan (disobedience, sin).

In such cases, we need to find out more about what is meant by such words before we can pass comment. Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “The words al-faqr and al-tasawwuf (i.e., Sufism) may include some things that are loved by Allaah and His Messenger, and these are things that are enjoined even if they are called faqr or tasawwuf, because the Qur’aan and Sunnah indicate that they are mustahabb and that is not altered if they called by other names. That also includes actions of the heart such as repentance and patience. And it may include things that are hated by Allaah and His Messenger, such as some kinds of belief in incarnation and pantheism, or monasticism that has been innovated in Islam, or things that go against sharee’ah and have been innovated, and so on. These things are forbidden no matter what names they are given… And it may include limiting oneself to a certain style of clothing or certain customs, ways of speaking and behaving, in such a way that anyone who goes beyond it is regarded as an outsider, although this is not something that has been stipulated in the Qur’aan or Sunnah; rather it may be something that is permissible or it may be something that is makrooh, and this is a bid’ah that is forbidden. This is not the way of the friends of Allaah (awliya’ Allaah); such things are innovations and misguidance that exists among those who claim to follow the Sufi path. Similarly, among those who claim to be servants of knowledge there are innovations that involve beliefs and words that go against the Qur’aan and Sunnah, using phrases and terminology that have no basis in sharee’ah. Many such things happen among those people.

The wise believer agrees with all people in that in which they are in accordance with the Qur’aan and Sunnah and obey Allaah and His Messenger, but he does not agree with that in which they go against the Qur’aan and Sunnah and disobey Allaah and His Messenger. He accepts from every group that which was taught by the Messenger… when a person seeks the truth and justice, based on knowledge, he is one of the successful friends of Allaah and His victorious party…
Al-Fataawa, 11/280-290.

But what Shaykh al-Islam said about the view of Sufis depending on their situation is almost too theoretical for our times, when the objectionable matters that he referred to have become part of the path of those who call themselves Sufis nowadays, in addition to the different occasions they celebrate such as the Mawlid, and their exaggeration about their living shaykhs, and their attachment to shrines and graves, where they pray and circumambulate the graves and make vows to them, and other well-known practices of theirs. Because of these matters, the correct approach now is to warn against them with no reservations. This is what was agreed upon by the Standing Committee in their answer to a question about the ruling on the Sufi tareeqahs that exist nowadays. They said:

Usually those that are called Sufis nowadays follow bid’ahs (innovations) that constitute shirk, as well as other kinds of bid’ah, such as when some of them say “Madad ya sayyid (Help, O Master)”, and call upon the qutubs (“holy men”), and recite dhikr in unison using names by Allaah has not called Himself, like saying “Huw, Huw (He, He)” and “Ah, Ah (a contraction of the word ‘Allaah’)”. Whoever reads their books will be aware of many of their innovations that constitute shirk, and other evils.
__________________

[psychoteddybear]

Ok, thanks...

Well, let me rephrase then. I know all those things and I'm definitely not interesting in becoming some weird follower of some whacked out sect. I'm more interested in the spiritual aspects...i.e. what they do to grow closer to Allah, are any of the things they do "halal", and if so, which Sufis...and so on. I'm trying to be as halal as possible in all this. I just have been feeling unfortunately this distance lately and I know it's due to my crazy workload and living on a bus all day all week all month...I just wanted to know if they have some ...I dunno, techniques to keep the memory of Allah swt in your heart.

wa salam

[Revert]

psychoteddybear said

Ok, thanks...

Well, let me rephrase then. I know all those things and I'm definitely not interesting in becoming some weird follower of some whacked out sect. I'm more interested in the spiritual aspects...i.e. what they do to grow closer to Allah, are any of the things they do "halal", and if so, which Sufis...and so on. I'm trying to be as halal as possible in all this. I just have been feeling unfortunately this distance lately and I know it's due to my crazy workload and living on a bus all day all week all month...I just wanted to know if they have some ...I dunno, techniques to keep the memory of Allah swt in your heart.

wa salam

Message Liam_Saiful_din he is a murid of Sh Nuh and would probably be able to help you.

I also started a Tassawuf thread and there were some helpful links in there..

http://www.islamicaweb.com/forums/re...uf-thread.html

True sufism is only that which in accordance with the Sacred Law (Shariah) in light of the Quraan and sunnah.

[Rida]

psychoteddybear said

Salam,

Any thoughts? I am interested in what Sufis do and believe in, etc...am I a transgressor for being curious? I found some Sufi/dhikrullah (?) circles in NYC and was thinking about checking one out...I don't know much about them and was curious...

any thoughts would be appreciated, negative or positive, as long as you're not cussing me out for being curious about this.

wa salam

Which circles have you been to? Were they performing loud dhikr or silent dhikr? Were they standing whilst doing dhikr or sitting? Was there any music (duffs or what not)?


Wassalaam

[ShamilB]

psychoteddybear said

Ok, thanks...

Well, let me rephrase then. I know all those things and I'm definitely not interesting in becoming some weird follower of some whacked out sect. I'm more interested in the spiritual aspects...i.e. what they do to grow closer to Allah, are any of the things they do "halal", and if so, which Sufis...and so on. I'm trying to be as halal as possible in all this. I just have been feeling unfortunately this distance lately and I know it's due to my crazy workload and living on a bus all day all week all month...I just wanted to know if they have some ...I dunno, techniques to keep the memory of Allah swt in your heart.

wa salam

If I were you I would stay away from it. Allah (SWT) knows best but personally I don't see any benefit in getting involved in these sufi circles which for the most part reek of innovations. I know your intention is good but the best way to remember Allah (swt) is to adhere to and follow established sunnah. Once you have exhausted this (and trust me there is a lot), then you can consult your local imam and see what other options are out there for you.

[MrZ]

I'm a big fan of sufi trapezoids.

[zzze]

assalamu alaykum

I loveee ''sufi'' circles , subhan Allah, such serenity around them. May Allah preserve the mu'mineen, ameeeeeen

[MossadConspiracy]

the proper term is covens

[Liam_Saiful_Din]

AbuAlAbbas said

Praise be to Allaah.

It is important for us to understand, firstly, that the words “Tasawwuf” and “Sufism” are modern terms which refer to something that is not automatically approved of in sharee’ah as the words eemaan (faith), Islam and ihsaan are. Neither is it automatically condemned like the words kufr, fusooq (immorality) and ‘asyaan (disobedience, sin).

In such cases, we need to find out more about what is meant by such words before we can pass comment. Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “The words al-faqr and al-tasawwuf (i.e., Sufism) may include some things that are loved by Allaah and His Messenger, and these are things that are enjoined even if they are called faqr or tasawwuf, because the Qur’aan and Sunnah indicate that they are mustahabb and that is not altered if they called by other names. That also includes actions of the heart such as repentance and patience. And it may include things that are hated by Allaah and His Messenger, such as some kinds of belief in incarnation and pantheism, or monasticism that has been innovated in Islam, or things that go against sharee’ah and have been innovated, and so on. These things are forbidden no matter what names they are given… And it may include limiting oneself to a certain style of clothing or certain customs, ways of speaking and behaving, in such a way that anyone who goes beyond it is regarded as an outsider, although this is not something that has been stipulated in the Qur’aan or Sunnah; rather it may be something that is permissible or it may be something that is makrooh, and this is a bid’ah that is forbidden. This is not the way of the friends of Allaah (awliya’ Allaah); such things are innovations and misguidance that exists among those who claim to follow the Sufi path. Similarly, among those who claim to be servants of knowledge there are innovations that involve beliefs and words that go against the Qur’aan and Sunnah, using phrases and terminology that have no basis in sharee’ah. Many such things happen among those people.

The wise believer agrees with all people in that in which they are in accordance with the Qur’aan and Sunnah and obey Allaah and His Messenger, but he does not agree with that in which they go against the Qur’aan and Sunnah and disobey Allaah and His Messenger. He accepts from every group that which was taught by the Messenger… when a person seeks the truth and justice, based on knowledge, he is one of the successful friends of Allaah and His victorious party…
Al-Fataawa, 11/280-290.

But what Shaykh al-Islam said about the view of Sufis depending on their situation is almost too theoretical for our times, when the objectionable matters that he referred to have become part of the path of those who call themselves Sufis nowadays, in addition to the different occasions they celebrate such as the Mawlid, and their exaggeration about their living shaykhs, and their attachment to shrines and graves, where they pray and circumambulate the graves and make vows to them, and other well-known practices of theirs. Because of these matters, the correct approach now is to warn against them with no reservations. This is what was agreed upon by the Standing Committee in their answer to a question about the ruling on the Sufi tareeqahs that exist nowadays. They said:

Usually those that are called Sufis nowadays follow bid’ahs (innovations) that constitute shirk, as well as other kinds of bid’ah, such as when some of them say “Madad ya sayyid (Help, O Master)”, and call upon the qutubs (“holy men”), and recite dhikr in unison using names by Allaah has not called Himself, like saying “Huw, Huw (He, He)” and “Ah, Ah (a contraction of the word ‘Allaah’)”. Whoever reads their books will be aware of many of their innovations that constitute shirk, and other evils.
__________________

I love how this article seems to pop up like an automatic reply when someone mentions tazkiya/tasawwuf.

[Revert]

ShamilB said

If I were you I would stay away from it. Allah (SWT) knows best but personally I don't see any benefit in getting involved in these sufi circles which for the most part reek of innovations. I know your intention is good but the best way to remember Allah (swt) is to adhere to and follow established sunnah. Once you have exhausted this (and trust me there is a lot), then you can consult your local imam and see what other options are out there for you.

Not all do..especially those of the shadhili tariqa. Unless you belong to a Tariqa or have actually experienced true Tasawwuf, how can you really comment on it?

[GOTFIVEONIT]

psychoteddybear said

Ok, thanks...

Well, let me rephrase then. I know all those things and I'm definitely not interesting in becoming some weird follower of some whacked out sect. I'm more interested in the spiritual aspects...i.e. what they do to grow closer to Allah, are any of the things they do "halal", and if so, which Sufis...and so on. I'm trying to be as halal as possible in all this. I just have been feeling unfortunately this distance lately and I know it's due to my crazy workload and living on a bus all day all week all month...I just wanted to know if they have some ...I dunno, techniques to keep the memory of Allah swt in your heart.

wa salam

dont listen to these wahabi's, they never liked sufi's to begin with. i find sufism to be very englitening and spiritual. i have attended indian/pakistani sufi mosques in the past. and india and pakistan have a very long tradition of sufism. thanks to the hard work of sufi's, bangladesh is a muslim country today. many hindus converted to Islam centuries ago in india and pak because of the works of sufis. i happen to enjoy thier music, and you can find plenty of it up on youtube. i think the most facinating one i saw was by some chechen sufis, which was amazing. sufi's believe in the love of god, and that god's love shines down. sufis are found in both sunni and shia sects. and even though i now attend a TJ mosque, every year on the night they finish the quran in ramadan, someone sings a accapella song, a religious song. this is unthinkable in a wahabi mosque. and although i am not a practicing sufi, i dont go around twiriling, i do like many of thier beliefs, and find nothing wrong with it at all, unlike those certain saudi sects who think you have to take a literal interpretation of the quran, who end up being nothing more than fanatics, stay away from them the most.

[Revert]

GOTFIVEONIT said

dont listen to these wahabi's, they never liked sufi's to begin with. i find sufism to be very englitening and spiritual. i have attended indian/pakistani sufi mosques in the past. and india and pakistan have a very long tradition of sufism. thanks to the hard work of sufi's, bangladesh is a muslim country today. many hindus converted to Islam centuries ago in india and pak because of the works of sufis. i happen to enjoy thier music, and you can find plenty of it up on youtube. i think the most facinating one i saw was by some chechen sufis, which was amazing. sufi's believe in the love of god, and that god's love shines down. sufis are found in both sunni and shia sects. and even though i now attend a TJ mosque, every year on the night they finish the quran in ramadan, someone sings a accapella song, a religious song. this is unthinkable in a wahabi mosque. and although i am not a practicing sufi, i dont go around twiriling, i do like many of thier beliefs, and find nothing wrong with it at all, unlike those certain saudi sects who think you have to take a literal interpretation of the quran, who end up being nothing more than fanatics, stay away from them the most.

You do realise that there is a strong Sufi presence in Saudi Arabia..right?

[SafiyAllah]

Out of the four main tariqas of Sufism I have come across 2 of them the Nasqhbandi Mujaddidi [What is Tasawwuf - Tasawwuf.org] and the Chistiyya. Both have different ways of doing dhikr. Both reliable of course. I've not studied them in detail so i wouldnt be able to elaborate. But if you find their dhikr circles be sure to check it out inshaAllah.

[rahma]

It's probable that the sufi circle you found in NYC is the Osmanli Nakshibendi tariqa under under Sh. al-Kibrisi.

A few of his mureeds blog and have links to his lectures and dhikr sessions. I'd read through Mind, Body and Soul and Saifudeen to get a feel for it.