[AbuAlAbbas]

Originally Posted by Biryani

I said I'm an outsider, not someone who is unaware. The salafis are introducing a new approach to jurisprudence within the Sunni community.

You said you are an outsider, yet you claim the salafis have introduced new approach, if you say something like this why would you consider yourself an outsider, what new approach have they brought?Bring forth your daleel.

The prohpet SAW told us to follow his sunnah and that of the khulafah al rashideen, he also said the best of his ummah are the first three generations, which were shia and sufi free, is that why you guys hate those who ascribe themselves as followers of the salaf?

You dont acknowledge the first three khalifahs, so your going to spew the ignorance your religous leaders have told you. But the khulafah ar rashideen term has been mentioned in our authentic ahadeeths, straight from the mouth of the blessed SAW.

[AbuAlAbbas]

Originally Posted by ShamilB

So why don't you tell us what the "why" is in the ahadith where he warns of innovations in religion.

and going back to the original posters post jazahu ALlahu khair, from al-alaama muhammad bin saleh al uthaymeen rA

"he (SAW) knew what he was saying and he knew the meaning of what he said"

[Jetmir]

Originally Posted by MuslimZ

This makes neither logical nor spiritual sense. How can all forms of expressing your love for your Lord be considered forbidden by default? This is not the Islam I know.

Originally Posted by sally

whaaaaaaaaat

Makes perfect sense to me, and I didnt make it up. I have heard this over and over again from many speakers, and not all were "salafis".

[Samsiah]

Originally Posted by Rida

Adding harakahs to the Quran so that people would recite it properly, biddah or not?
Keep in mind that it wasn't written like that before.
Do you use a quran with harakahs in it?

I don't understand this, harakah? Harakah is not being added to Quran, it's there for a long time. They are from Nabi(S.A.W) to sahabah (R.A) and then to imams of qiraat. For example, the word ha dza (this is) is pronounce as Haaa(2 harakat) dzaa(2 harakat) in quran and even in conversational arabic language, you have to pronounce it slower because if you pronounce it quickly, or omit the letter 'alif' in writting, it will change the whole meaning. I think what's 'new' in Quran is the Dhommah, Fathah and kasrah signs, meant to help the non-arabs???

Or what you meant by 'it wasn't written like that before' is the 'madd' sign? You meant that originally it was written with double 'alif'? I just don't understand how harakah can be omitted in the past whether it's in writting or in reading because it can change the meaning of the word. It would be nice if Brother Rida can explain it to me. I'm quite slow in understanding things...

[Bluestar]

more daleel please

[Rida]

Originally Posted by Samsiah

I think what's 'new' in Quran is the Dhommah, Fathah and kasrah signs, meant to help the non-arabs???

The diacritics is what i was referring to such as; the fatha, fathatayn, damma, dammatayn, kasrah, kasratayn, sukun, shaddah, maad and all the various stop signs etc.. were innovations that were added at a later point long after the first three generations to help people read the Quran in a correct manner.

Wassalaam

[LEGALEAGLE]

Originally Posted by Rida

The diacritics is what i was referring to such as; the fatha, fathatayn, damma, dammatayn, kasrah, kasratayn, sukun, shaddah, maad and all the various stop signs etc.. were innovations that were added at a later point long after the first three generations to help people read the Quran in a correct manner.

Wassalaam

and the thing is they were added on the orders of Hajjaj bin Yusuf because he wanted to make it easier on the non-Arabs....

[MasterONaniFiqh]

easily accessible bound books of the quran in printed form are an innovation. a good innovation. books of hadith are also an innovation. the markings on the floor or colored carpets for the prayer rows at mosques are an innovation. so are wudu facilities with faucets. the various kinds of muslim clothing worn throughout the world are innovations. deoderant is an innovation. riding in cars and on planes to go to hajj is an innovation. translating the quran and having that in a book is an innovation. watching televised broadcasts of prayers at the holy mosques in mecca and medina are innovations, as is listening to or watching islamic lectures on video. recordings of the quran and listening to them are an innovation.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by MasterONaniFiqh

easily accessible bound books of the quran in printed form are an innovation. a good innovation. books of hadith are also an innovation. the markings on the floor or colored carpets for the prayer rows at mosques are an innovation. so are wudu facilities with faucets. the various kinds of muslim clothing worn throughout the world are innovations. deoderant is an innovation. riding in cars and on planes to go to hajj is an innovation. translating the quran and having that in a book is an innovation. watching televised broadcasts of prayers at the holy mosques in mecca and medina are innovations, as is listening to or watching islamic lectures on video. recordings of the quran and listening to them are an innovation.

But these are all technological innovations. I think he's talking about innovations in worship.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by Rida

The diacritics is what i was referring to such as; the fatha, fathatayn, damma, dammatayn, kasrah, kasratayn, sukun, shaddah, maad and all the various stop signs etc.. were innovations that were added at a later point long after the first three generations to help people read the Quran in a correct manner.

Wassalaam

But are they really innovations? Nothing of the Qur'an was being changed. The grammatical marks were added to allow people to read it. If I increased the font size of the Quranic text, it wouldn't be altering the Qur'an. It would just allow people to read it.

[sally]

I've wanted a horse all my life. Do you think if I use this bid'ah reasoning, my parents will be convinced and buy me a horse to get around?

[MasterONaniFiqh]

praying tarawih in jamat is an innovation. including zoroastrians as people of the book was an innovation.

[MasterONaniFiqh]

bid'at

In a Hadith from Miskhat Shareef in which the Prophet (salallahoalaihewasalam) said "Whosoever introduces a new belief in our religion which contradicts with it is rejected." He also said "Beware of innovations, for every innovation (Kullu Bid'at) is misguidance." But there is another hadith from the same book which is in favor of good innovations, thus a Hadith in Miskhat under Babul-I'lm says: "He who sets a good precedent in Islam, there is reward for him for this (act of goodness) and a reward for him also who acts according to it subsequently, without any deduction from their rewards and he who sets in Islam an evil precedent there is upon him the burden of that, and the burden of him also who acts upon it subsequently, without any deduction from their burdens." From this Hadith we see that to introduce a nice way in Islam which is in accordance with the Holy Quran and Sunnah will induce rewards and to do vice versa will provoke punishment.

If we assume that every new innovation is Bid'at then the following acts also come under new innovations which were not existed at the time of Prophet (salallahoalaihewasalam) but Sahabaa Kiraam performed it after Rasulallah was departed.

· Compilation of Quran

· Adding first call to prayer on friday

· Taraveeh prayer with jamaat

· Compilation of books of hadiths

and so on ...

From the above references it is proved that Bid'ats are only those acts in Islam which are new and against Islamic spirit. Therefore to call Milad-un-Nabi gathering or Shab-e-Baraat, Shab-e-Meraj, Quran Khawani etc. Bid'at or Shirk is very unfortunate. If some body does not like these gatherings, he should not prevent other muslims to celebrate it.

[Rida]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

But are they really innovations? Nothing of the Qur'an was being changed. The grammatical marks were added to allow people to read it. If I increased the font size of the Quranic text, it wouldn't be altering the Qur'an. It would just allow people to read it.

According to the definitions the op and abualabbas posted, it would be regarded as a innovation. Adding something new within religion that never existed during the time of the prophet (sallAllahu alaihi wasallam) or the salafs.
The people should have instead learned to read it from those that knew how to read it. Much like the non-arabs did during the time of the salafs.
In fact Rasulullah (sallAllahu alaihi wasallam) himself could have added the dialects but instead sent some of the prominent recitors of the Quran [mu'adh (ra)] to different locations just so they can teach the people the correct pronounciation.

Wassalaam

[AbuAlAbbas]

praying tarawih in jamat is an innovation. including zoroastrians as people of the book was an innovation.

learn before you speak.

According to the definitions the op and abualabbas posted, it would be regarded as a innovation. Adding something new within religion that never existed during the time of the prophet (sallAllahu alaihi wasallam) or the salafs.
The people should have instead learned to read it from those that knew how to read it. Much like the non-arabs did during the time of the salafs.
In fact Rasulullah (sallAllahu alaihi wasallam) himself could have added the dialects but instead sent some of the prominent recitors of the Quran [mu'adh (ra)] to different locations just so they can teach the people the correct pronounciation.

Wassalaam

tell me what new came out of putting the harakahs? were the recitations different? infact putting the harakahs was so people can follow the sunnah of Muhammad SAW in reading the quran. How is this adding something new in the form of ibadaah are we reading the quran any different than muhammad SAW, I have come to the conclusion that you are simply debating because you have kibr and allegiance to your innovative ways, and the ways of fathers and shaykhs. You know what you do is bidaah in forms of thikr and other things, so you try to justify it by saying quran on paper is bidaah etc.... itaqi Allah. So im done with you because i have shot down everything you claimed yet you come back with something crazier than the one before, and im not here to debate to win, i post so people can realeize the truth, and when i see people like you who debate and disregard the truth just so they can defend a group then i dotn conversate with them, because thats not what im about.

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