[Rida]

This is the understanding of the scholars.

Adding harakahs to the Quran so that people would recite it properly, biddah or not?
Keep in mind that it wasn't written like that before.
Do you use a quran with harakahs in it?

The root meaning of bid`ah is that which occurs without prior example. In the
Shari`ah it is opposite the Sunnah and so it is blameworthy. The truth is that if it
is part of what is though good in the Shari`ah, it is considered good, and if it is
part of that which is thought ugly in the Shari`ah, it is considered ugly. Otherwise,

its category is permissible (mubah). It is divided into five rulings.

Ibn Hajar Al Asqalani (ra) [Fath al bari pg 353] on the hadith quoted earlier

Is ibn hajar (ra) a bidati to your scholars?

Ibn `Umar said about the duha prayer, ‘An excellent innovation.’

Ibn Umar (ra) a bidati?

“Anyone who creates a good practice in Islam has its reward and the reward of

whoever does it after him until the Day of Rising”
[Sahih Muslim]

[Jetmir]

Brother AbuAlAbbas, may Allah grant you understanding of the deen, hikma, make you of the righteous and grant you jannatul firdaws.

Book 008, Number 3236:
Anas (Allah be pleased with him) reported that some of the Companions of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) asked his (the Prophet's) wives about the acts that he performed in private. Someone among them (among his Companions) said: I will not marry women; someone among them said: I will not eat meat; and someone among them said: I will not lie down in bed. He (the Holy Prophet) praised Allah and glorified Him, and said: What has happened to these people that they say so and so, whereas I observe prayer and sleep too; I observe fast and suspend observing them; I marry women also. And he who turns away from my Sunnah, he has no relation with Me.

[Jetmir]

Originally Posted by MuslimZ

I'm dying, dying to hear your justification for being on teh internetz.

Because its not an act of ibaada, so its halal unless proven haram. If its an act of ibaada, then everything is haram unless proven halal. All ibaada is haram, unless Allah has permitted us to do it.

[AbuAlAbbas]

Is ibn hajar (ra) a bidati to your scholars?

ibn hajar had mistakes in his aqeedah, but he still considered a scholar of ahlul sunnah wal jammah, im trying to find articles explaining this but so far I cant. Im not going to try and explain it because I have no right to delve into these sort of things.

Ibn Umar (ra) a bidati?

I cant even answer questions like these, wal iyathu billah, it is apparent you dont read my posts and if you do, you are simply trying to refute because of your kibr and allegiance, and Allah SWT knows best. I dont refute to beat people at it, I do it so inshAllah the haq can be seen.

[AbuAlAbbas]

Originally Posted by Jetmir

Brother AbuAlAbbas, may Allah grant you understanding of the deen, hikma, make you of the righteous and grant you jannatul firdaws.

Book 008, Number 3236:
Anas (Allah be pleased with him) reported that some of the Companions of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) asked his (the Prophet's) wives about the acts that he performed in private. Someone among them (among his Companions) said: I will not marry women; someone among them said: I will not eat meat; and someone among them said: I will not lie down in bed. He (the Holy Prophet) praised Allah and glorified Him, and said: What has happened to these people that they say so and so, whereas I observe prayer and sleep too; I observe fast and suspend observing them; I marry women also. And he who turns away from my Sunnah, he has no relation with Me.

JazakALLAH kahir ya akhi for the dua, wallahi iny ahubaka fil Lah, and I ask ALLAH SWT to grant you and your family the best for this life and the hereafter, and to guide us all.

[Biryani]

My comments are presented as the observations of an outsider. Historically, it seems every time a group wants to introduce something new (lets say a biddah) they tend to play the biddah card iin an attempt to establish their authority over the previously established way.

In contemporary, the Salafis apologia expanded on by our dear brother is for all pracitcal purposes a 'biddah' to the mainline sunni community.

Other groups historically have tried to do the same thing. IE the Sufis of the 9th century tried to show their way was the way and everything else was polluted by bidahs by relating themselves to the ashab e suffah etc..

I'm confused about one thing perhaps the brother can elaborate on. According to the Salafi way, who all holds religious authority? IE I was under the impression only the Prophet (pbuh) would have that authority, but it seems many of the hadiths you are quoting are presented in first person instead of 3rd person.

The very fact of choosing the name 'salafi' places a greater emphasis on the salafs than their master.

I'm also curious to know if there's any systematical system of 'choosing which one' when two salafs disagree because as we know historically there was discontent among the salafs especially after the death of RasulAllah (saw).

Bir

[AbuAlAbbas]

So like, giving Da'wa through internet...?
Yeah but he posted it on the net, on a forum, so does it count as Ibadah or Bidah?

Make jokes all you want, but wAllahi, if it wasnt for ALLAH SWT and then ahl ul sunnah al-salafyeen (the ones who followed the way of Muhammad SAW, the sahabah and the next generation and the generation after them) then true islam would not be known and people would be lost like those of the judaisim and christian religions, in which people innovated and the true deen was lost.

My comments are presented as the observations of an outsider. Historically, it seems every time a group wants to introduce something new (lets say a biddah) they tend to play the biddah card iin an attempt to establish their authority over the previously established way.

In contemporary, the Salafis apologia expanded on by our dear brother is for all pracitcal purposes a 'biddah' to the mainline sunni community.

Other groups historically have tried to do the same thing. IE the Sufis of the 9th century tried to show their way was the way and everything else was polluted by bidahs by relating themselves to the ashab e suffah etc..

You are an outsider and one who does not know anything, the salafis have not introduced anything into the religion, they simply hold on to the deen that Muhammad SAW brought and tought to the sahaba and the tabieen and atbaa atabeein.

I'm confused about one thing perhaps the brother can elaborate on. According to the Salafi way, who all holds religious authority? IE I was under the impression only the Prophet (pbuh) would have that authority, but it seems many of the hadiths you are quoting are presented in first person instead of 3rd person.

If you look at all the people of innovations, they have a head guy who they have a 'aasabiyyah' to ex. ikhwan al muslimoon - hasan al bana. But if you look at ahlul sunnah the head of them is Muhammad SAW. We dont follow any of our scholars if they make mistakes, wALLAHI when scholars make mistakes wether it be one of the 4 imams, bin taymeeyah, bin baz, bin uthaymeen, albani (may ALlah have mercy on all) their mistakes are corrected and their mistakes are not followed. Because we follow Muhammad SAW and when scholars make mistakes they are corrected and not followed.

I dont know which hadiths you are talking about, you might be reffering to the hadiths of the salaf against the people of innovation. Then yes those are the salaf the best of generations as muhammad SAW stated, the ones who learned the religion first hand, and their opinions on those who introduce matters into the deen.

The very fact of choosing the name 'salafi' places a greater emphasis on the salafs than their master

When Muhammad SAW taught the religion to the sahaba, and he told us to follow the sunnah of khulafah al rashideen, and that the best generations are the sahaba and then the generation after them and the generation after them, arent we listening to Muhammad SAW? we understand the quran and sunnah from the understanding of the salaf (the first three generations) the ones who learned the quran and sunnah from the one who brought it SAW. Everyone can say im a sunni, yet they follow ideologies that came hundreds of years after Muhammad SAW. So saying salafi is in fact following the deen that Muhammad SAW brought.

I'm also curious to know if there's any systematical system of 'choosing which one' when two salafs disagree because as we know historically there was discontent among the salafs especially after the death of RasulAllah (saw).

The ikhtilaf of the salaf was not ikhtilaf in aqeedah, but mainly fiqh, and in their ikhtilaf there is no right or wrong, al mas'ala wasi3a, and ALLAH SWT knows best.

[sally]

Originally Posted by Jetmir

Because its not an act of ibaada, so its halal unless proven haram. If its an act of ibaada, then everything is haram unless proven halal. All ibaada is haram, unless Allah has permitted us to do it.

whaaaaaaaaat

[MuslimZ]

Originally Posted by Jetmir

Because its not an act of ibaada, so its halal unless proven haram. If its an act of ibaada, then everything is haram unless proven halal. All ibaada is haram, unless Allah has permitted us to do it.

This makes neither logical nor spiritual sense. How can all forms of expressing your love for your Lord be considered forbidden by default? This is not the Islam I know.

[AbuAlAbbas]

Ibadaah has to be done in accordance with the sunnah, the way muhammad SAW did it. Look at the quote that I posted from imam al shafee. Why must you innovate, why not follow the way of the prophet, or let me ask you this, isnt Muhammad SAW your prophet? yes he is, didnt he bring you the message? yes he did, so why not follow his way, the best way, and the only way. I go back to the example of the maghrib salaat, Muhammad SAW prayed it in three rakaahs, but the number four is greater than three, so will four rakaahs for maghrib be accepted? NO! four is a larger number than three, four dollars is better than three dollars, but three rakaahs is better than four rakaahs for maghrib, and it is the only way, why? because its the way of Muhammad SAW.

[sally]

i dont think any of the madhabs have different stances on the number of salaah rakaahs...?

[Revert]

Originally Posted by AbuAlAbbas

Ibadaah has to be done in accordance with the sunnah, the way muhammad SAW did it. Look at the quote that I posted from imam al shafee. Why must you innovate, why not follow the way of the prophet, or let me ask you this, isnt Muhammad SAW your prophet? yes he is, didnt he bring you the message? yes he did, so why not follow his way, the best way, and the only way. I go back to the example of the maghrib salaat, Muhammad SAW prayed it in three rakaahs, but the number four is greater than three, so will four rakaahs for maghrib be accepted? NO! four is a larger number than three, four dollars is better than three dollars, but three rakaahs is better than four rakaahs for maghrib, and it is the only way, why? because its the way of Muhammad SAW.

As far as I am aware there are no innovations in ibaadah within Tasawwuf. Standing or moving whilst doing dhikr or in congregation is not innovation. It has been documented in a hadith that i posted also Allah (swt) himself tells in the Quran the benifit of doing ibadaah in different positions outside of the Salaat.

[Biryani]

You are an outsider and one who does not know anything, the salafis have not introduced anything into the religion, they simply hold on to the deen that Muhammad SAW brought and tought to the sahaba and the tabieen and atbaa atabeein

I said I'm an outsider, not someone who is unaware. The salafis are introducing a new approach to jurisprudence within the Sunni community. They have invented a new way of coming to a ruling based on contrdicting hadiths. They have used the packaging you presented to try and introduce it to new comers without explicitly coming out and saying we have a new way of doing it.

I dont know which hadiths you are talking about, you might be reffering to the hadiths of the salaf against the people of innovation. Then yes those are the salaf the best of generations as muhammad SAW stated, the ones who learned the religion first hand, and their opinions on those who introduce matters into the

You answered my question brother. In addition to the authority of the Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) you introduce a new source for jurisprudence which is the opinon of the first generation.

This is I disagree with your approach. Only the opinions of the Prophet (pbuh) are given validity in the Quran. This means for me unless the person is saying, I heard the Prophet (pbuh) say this, the opinion in itself hold no value. (especially taking into consideration that these people often had opinoins which contradicted each other).

When Muhammad SAW taught the religion to the sahaba, and he told us to follow the sunnah of khulafah al rashideen, and that the best generations are the sahaba and then the generation after them and the generation after them, arent we listening to Muhammad SAW? we understand the quran and sunnah from the understanding of the salaf (the first three generations) the ones who learned the quran and sunnah from the one who brought it SAW. Everyone can say im a sunni, yet they follow ideologies that came hundreds of years after Muhammad SAW. So saying salafi is in fact following the deen that Muhammad SAW brought

Khulufa i Rashideen is a term which was coined after the rise of the Abbasid Caliphate. The term was not present in the books of history prior to this date. It was coined by the Abbasids to indirectly say the other khulufa were no rashideen.

I'm also skeptical to your claim that the first 3 generations represent the best generations. I'll even agree with you that the best Muslim community to have lived was during the life of the Prophet (pbuh). But about the next two generations? Weren't they all involved in perhaps the worst and most embaressing historical civil strifes for the Muslims? I mean the Kafirs sat back and watched Muslim on Muslim death matches. Seems sketchy.

Sunnis follow a method of deriving jurisprudence which was derived years after the death of the Prophet (pbuh). Salafis follow a method of driving jurisprudence which was derived HUNDREDS of years after the death of the PRophet (pbuh). They did do a case study of the first generation, but then again so did the 4 schools of Sunni fiqh.

I'm not looking to convert you and that is why I pointed out that I'm an outsider in this matter. I do want you to learn to question the things that are told to you before you accept them for fact. Whether you like it or not, the fact of the matter is Salafism is a new form of deriving jurisprudence. Like the Sunni schools, it was built based on a case study of the first generation, but at a much later time.

Bir

[MuslimZ]

Originally Posted by AbuAlAbbas

Ibadaah has to be done in accordance with the sunnah, the way muhammad SAW did it. Look at the quote that I posted from imam al shafee. Why must you innovate, why not follow the way of the prophet, or let me ask you this, isnt Muhammad SAW your prophet? yes he is, didnt he bring you the message? yes he did, so why not follow his way, the best way, and the only way. I go back to the example of the maghrib salaat, Muhammad SAW prayed it in three rakaahs, but the number four is greater than three, so will four rakaahs for maghrib be accepted? NO! four is a larger number than three, four dollars is better than three dollars, but three rakaahs is better than four rakaahs for maghrib, and it is the only way, why? because its the way of Muhammad SAW.

You have become so focused on the WHAT of the Prophet (saw), you've forgotten the WHY completely. The sunnah isn't only about the rituals and physical traditions but his mindset and attitudes.