[ChotooMotoo]

http://www.christianpost.com/article...Muslim_Men.htm

Why Christian Women Marry Muslim Men
A Wake-Up Call
By Mark Earley

It was while vacationing in Turkey that Miriam, a British subject, became fascinated with Islam. She was mesmerized by the beauty of the mosques and spellbound as she heard the daily calls to prayer. Miriam had been raised a Christian, but had turned against God when her mother died. The simplicity and security that Islam seemed to offer appealed to her: She decided to convert and married a Muslim man.

But within a few years, cracks began to form in her new faith. She felt that she could never be good enough to earn a place in Paradise, and that God did not love her. One day Miriam picked up her old Bible, and a few months later, re-embraced her commitment to Christ. But when Miriam told her husband what she had done, he promptly left her and their little girl. Islamic law required it: She was now an apostate.

Miriam tells her story in a new book by Rosemary Sookhdeo titled Why Christian Women Convert to Islam. What is shocking is how many of these women come from strong, evangelical backgrounds. Many converts, like Miriam, are brought up by Christian parents, accept Christ, and get involved in church activities. But as they grow older, their commitment fades, or they become disillusioned with Christianity. Islam, they think, may offer the answer.

Younger women often meet Muslims at college—men who convince them that there is really not much difference between Islam and Christianity. When their wives discover the truth that Christianity is not the same as Islam, it is often too late. Any children they have will be raised Muslim—and great pressure is put on wives to convert.

Some women marry with the best of intentions: Their husbands are recent Muslim converts to Christianity. The women learn later that they should have put off wedding plans in order to test the strength of this commitment, because all too often, these men convert back to Islam when their families pressure them.

The sobering truth is that the number of Christian converts to Islam is growing rapidly. Sookhdeo says that when her husband recently spoke at a major Christian conference, he asked the audience how many of them knew someone who had converted to Islam. Fifty percent of the audience raised a hand—astonishing!

Sookhdeo believes that some 30,000 Westerners have converted to Islam in the last decade—the majority of them women. Clearly, our churches need to do something about this. In Sunday school classes and youth groups, we need to teach our kids, especially our daughters, about the difference between Islam and Christianity. And we cannot forget the role that Christian education plays here. We must remind them of the Apostle Paul’s admonition in Second Corinthians that we not be yoked with unbelievers.

As more and more Muslims immigrate to Western countries, Christians will likely find themselves mixing with them at work, in the college classroom, and in their neighborhoods. While we should welcome opportunities to develop friendships and share our life and faith, marriage is altogether different.

If you know young Christians tempted to marry outside the faith, talk to them. Pray for them. And ask your church family for support. We must do all we can to help our children remain faithful to the one true God and His only Son, who alone died for our sins: Jesus the Christ.
------------------------

I found this article very interesting. On the on hand, it shows that Islam is indeed gaining ground and that Christian leaders are begining to be concerned. That is certainly very positive. On the other hand, it highlights a problem of Muslim men marrying non-Muslim women, which is not necessarily so positive. He suggests that Christians start an initiative to keep Christians girls from marrying Muslim men. Should Muslims start the same innitiative to keep Muslim men from marrying Christian girls? Discuss.

[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

I found this article very interesting. On the on hand, it shows that Islam is indeed gaining ground and that Christian leaders are begining to be concerned. That is certainly very positive. On the other hand, it highlights a problem of Muslim men marrying non-Muslim women, which is not necessarily so positive. He suggests that Christians start an initiative to keep Christians girls from marrying Muslim men. Should Muslims start the same innitiative to keep Muslim men from marrying Christian girls? Discuss.

The article is dumb.

He cites real figures after his obligatory cautionary tale (which we have no way of verifying), but then interpolates his own biased perspective -

Younger women often meet Muslims at college—men who convince them that there is really not much difference between Islam and Christianity. When their wives discover the truth that Christianity is not the same as Islam, it is often too late. Any children they have will be raised Muslim—and great pressure is put on wives to convert.

Some women marry with the best of intentions: Their husbands are recent Muslim converts to Christianity. The women learn later that they should have put off wedding plans in order to test the strength of this commitment, because all too often, these men convert back to Islam when their families pressure them.

What he's concerned about is conversions (or as we call them, reversions). He's talking about anyone who ever WAS Christian blindly and naively marrying evil, deceptive Muslim guys while still being Christian. This is not the case.

The vast majority of former Christian women who revert to Islam through the person they marry do so before they get married. It doesn't make sense that someone who is OK with marrying a Christian woman while she is Christian (and technically, there's nothing wrong with that, though I'd think it'd be a bad idea for most people) is going to "force" her to convert after the fact.

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

On the other hand, it highlights a problem of Muslim men marrying non-Muslim women, which is not necessarily so positive. He suggests that Christians start an initiative to keep Christians girls from marrying Muslim men. Should Muslims start the same innitiative to keep Muslim men from marrying Christian girls? Discuss.

How's that such a big problem?
People should just marry whoever they wanna marry.

[Anderson]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Why Christian Women Marry Muslim Men | Christianpost.com

Why Christian Women Marry Muslim Men
A Wake-Up Call
By Mark Earley

It was while vacationing in Turkey that Miriam, a British subject, became fascinated with Islam. She was mesmerized by the beauty of the mosques and spellbound as she heard the daily calls to prayer. Miriam had been raised a Christian, but had turned against God when her mother died. The simplicity and security that Islam seemed to offer appealed to her: She decided to convert and married a Muslim man.

But within a few years, cracks began to form in her new faith. She felt that she could never be good enough to earn a place in Paradise, and that God did not love her. One day Miriam picked up her old Bible, and a few months later, re-embraced her commitment to Christ. But when Miriam told her husband what she had done, he promptly left her and their little girl. Islamic law required it: She was now an apostate.

Miriam tells her story in a new book by Rosemary Sookhdeo titled Why Christian Women Convert to Islam. What is shocking is how many of these women come from strong, evangelical backgrounds. Many converts, like Miriam, are brought up by Christian parents, accept Christ, and get involved in church activities. But as they grow older, their commitment fades, or they become disillusioned with Christianity. Islam, they think, may offer the answer.

Younger women often meet Muslims at college—men who convince them that there is really not much difference between Islam and Christianity. When their wives discover the truth that Christianity is not the same as Islam, it is often too late. Any children they have will be raised Muslim—and great pressure is put on wives to convert.

Some women marry with the best of intentions: Their husbands are recent Muslim converts to Christianity. The women learn later that they should have put off wedding plans in order to test the strength of this commitment, because all too often, these men convert back to Islam when their families pressure them.

The sobering truth is that the number of Christian converts to Islam is growing rapidly. Sookhdeo says that when her husband recently spoke at a major Christian conference, he asked the audience how many of them knew someone who had converted to Islam. Fifty percent of the audience raised a hand—astonishing!

Sookhdeo believes that some 30,000 Westerners have converted to Islam in the last decade—the majority of them women. Clearly, our churches need to do something about this. In Sunday school classes and youth groups, we need to teach our kids, especially our daughters, about the difference between Islam and Christianity. And we cannot forget the role that Christian education plays here. We must remind them of the Apostle Paul’s admonition in Second Corinthians that we not be yoked with unbelievers.

As more and more Muslims immigrate to Western countries, Christians will likely find themselves mixing with them at work, in the college classroom, and in their neighborhoods. While we should welcome opportunities to develop friendships and share our life and faith, marriage is altogether different.

If you know young Christians tempted to marry outside the faith, talk to them. Pray for them. And ask your church family for support. We must do all we can to help our children remain faithful to the one true God and His only Son, who alone died for our sins: Jesus the Christ.
------------------------

I found this article very interesting. On the on hand, it shows that Islam is indeed gaining ground and that Christian leaders are begining to be concerned. That is certainly very positive. On the other hand, it highlights a problem of Muslim men marrying non-Muslim women, which is not necessarily so positive. He suggests that Christians start an initiative to keep Christians girls from marrying Muslim men. Should Muslims start the same innitiative to keep Muslim men from marrying Christian girls? Discuss.

That's an awfully long way of saying 'Muslim men got game'

[iTz_NoT_Me_iTzZu]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Some women marry with the best of intentions: Their husbands are recent Muslim converts to Christianity. The women learn later that they should have put off wedding plans in order to test the strength of this commitment, because all too often, these men convert back to Islam when their families pressure them.

LOL this sounds totally made up

[Skinwalker]

I think it is also interesting to note that the idea of being unequally yoked and not to marry unbelievers means not just anyone of a different faith, but people within the community who do not profess a faith in Christ. I know this because it happened to a friend of mine. He was a Catholic, but the girl he wanted to marry did not consider him enough of a Christian or even a Christian to begin with as he considered himself a Catholic first and a Christian second and she did not want to be unequally yoked with an unbeliever unless he asked Jesus into his heart... confusing yes?

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

The article is dumb.

He cites real figures after his obligatory cautionary tale (which we have no way of verifying), but then interpolates his own biased perspective -

Of course he's biased, everyone who writes anything writes their bias into the article. I knew it was biased when I posted it. What's the fun in discussing a low-bias article?

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

What he's concerned about is conversions (or as we call them, reversions). He's talking about anyone who ever WAS Christian blindly and naively marrying evil, deceptive Muslim guys while still being Christian. This is not the case.

The vast majority of former Christian women who revert to Islam through the person they marry do so before they get married. It doesn't make sense that someone who is OK with marrying a Christian woman while she is Christian (and technically, there's nothing wrong with that, though I'd think it'd be a bad idea for most people) is going to "force" her to convert after the fact.

I don't think it's good for Muslim men to marry Christian girls. I'm not sure where you get this idea that the vast majority of Muslim men who marry Christian girls marry them after they convert to Islam (and they were in their relationship when she converted). That has not been my experience. I've met several Muslim men who are married to Christian girls (the girls have no intention of converting). I've actually never met a Muslim man whose Christian wife converted to Islam after they got married, or a Christain girl who was in a relationship, converted, and married the same man. It sometimes happens that a Muslim girl was introduced to Islam by her boyfriend, but when she converts she realizes that the kind of man who is so irreligious as to have a girlfriend isn't the kind of man she wants to marry.

Muslim men DO marry Christian girls... while they are still Christian. Most convert Muslim girls I've met married to born Muslim men were Muslims before they met their husbands. There is a lot of bias in Muslim communities against convert girls married to Muslim men as well, becuase the most people assume that they married and she converted later (this assumption is most strongly held by South Asians). People then assume that the girl isn't that strong in her faith, and neither is her husband, for why else would he marry a non-Muslim. As a person who converted before I ever even met my husband, I've seen this bias applied to me, and seen the complete about face in how people treat me once they learned that I converted to Islam "on my own" ie. without my husbands help.

I better get over this mental block soon, I have to teach this afternoon.

[Abdul_Karim]

"Why Christian Women Marry Muslim Men?"

Because we're hot.

[MuslimZ]

Originally Posted by Abdul_Karim

Because we're hot.

Nope. But thanks for trying.

[Shahnawaz]

What a strange article?!

[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Of course he's biased, everyone who writes anything writes their bias into the article. I knew it was biased when I posted it. What's the fun in discussing a low-bias article?

The problem is that a significant part of his premise is flawed due to his bias, and you implicitly accept it.

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

I don't think it's good for Muslim men to marry Christian girls.

That depends on the Muslim man & the Christian woman.

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

I'm not sure where you get this idea that the vast majority of Muslim men who marry Christian girls marry them after they convert to Islam (and they were in their relationship when she converted). That has not been my experience.

I've met several Muslim men who are married to Christian girls (the girls have no intention of converting). I've actually never met a Muslim man whose Christian wife converted to Islam after they got married, or a Christain girl who was in a relationship, converted, and married the same man. It sometimes happens that a Muslim girl was introduced to Islam by her boyfriend, but when she converts she realizes that the kind of man who is so irreligious as to have a girlfriend isn't the kind of man she wants to marry

Muslim men DO marry Christian girls... while they are still Christian. Most convert Muslim girls I've met married to born Muslim men were Muslims before they met their husbands.

You're confused. I was specifically citing women who become Muslims through the men they marry (which was what the article was addressing), not speaking to what percentage of white Muslim females reverted on their own vs through marriage, or what percentage of Christian females remain Christian after marriage.

See below:

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

The vast majority of former Christian women who revert to Islam through the person they marry do so before they get married

However, I've known and grown up around quite a few Paki-White and Arab-White families. My mother-in-law was raised as a Christian (and is now a very religious Muslim woman masha'Allah). Couples where the woman reverted as a result of meeting a Muslim man they want to marry are pretty common - in fact, amongst older couples it's the vast majority - and it doesn't necessarily imply a pre-existing haram relationship (note that I didn't say anything about relationships, either). In today's world, where more and more Westerners are reverting on their own, I'm sure that's changing.

BTW though I sometimes catch myself using that terminology, we should refrain from saying "born Christian" or singling people out as "born Muslim," since everyone is born Muslim.

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

There is a lot of bias in Muslim communities against convert girls married to Muslim men as well, becuase the most people assume that they married and she converted later (this assumption is most strongly held by South Asians).

Not that I've noticed. In fact, in my 27 years of being South Asian, I don't think I've ever encountered that assumption once. To people like my family, it wouldn't occur to them that even a "juma to juma" Desi Muslim would marry a Christian girl before she converted. What they would assume is that she converted solely for the sake of marriage, and that might cause some bias. Their mentality is that if a guy did marry without converting the woman, then he must be weak, womanly, stupid, a chamcha, etc., and so his wife would have no reason to follow his religion after marriage anyway.

I have noticed is there is a lot of bias in South Asians against white people, period. Also, black people. And Chinese people. And Jews. And Hispanics. And other South Asians.

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

People then assume that the girl isn't that strong in her faith, and neither is her husband, for why else would he marry a non-Muslim. As a person who converted before I ever even met my husband, I've seen this bias applied to me, and seen the complete about face in how people treat me once they learned that I converted to Islam "on my own" ie. without my husbands help.

That bias would also be applied if they assumed you converted solely for the sake of marriage or "dated" before marriage, which is the snap judgment traditional South Asian Muslims tend to make.

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

The problem is that a significant part of his premise is flawed due to his bias, and you implicitly accept it.

I don't accept his bias, I accept that he is biased. There is a difference. I know that you can't "convince" someone to change their religion. At some level, a person has to believe in a religion to change it. That's why you get so many marriages where the woman never changes her religion. The chance that she may stay Christian all her life is one of the reasons why I think muslim women aren't allowed to marry non-Muslim men.

However, I've known and grown up around quite a few Paki-White and Arab-White families. My mother-in-law was raised as a Christian (and is now a very religious Muslim woman masha'Allah). Couples where the woman reverted as a result of meeting a Muslim man they want to marry are pretty common - in fact, amongst older couples it's the vast majority - and it doesn't necessarily imply a pre-existing haram relationship (note that I didn't say anything about relationships, either). In today's world, where more and more Westerners are reverting on their own, I'm sure that's changing.


Not that I've noticed. In fact, in my 27 years of being South Asian, I don't think I've ever encountered that assumption once. To people like my family, it wouldn't occur to them that even a "juma to juma" Desi Muslim would marry a Christian girl before she converted. What they would assume is that she converted solely for the sake of marriage, and that might cause some bias. Their mentality is that if a guy did marry without converting the woman, then he must be weak, womanly, stupid, a chamcha, etc., and so his wife would have no reason to follow his religion after marriage anyway.

I have noticed is there is a lot of bias in South Asians against white people, period. Also, black people. And Chinese people. And Jews. And Hispanics. And other South Asians.

That bias would also be applied if they assumed you converted solely for the sake of marriage or "dated" before marriage, which is the snap judgment traditional South Asian Muslims tend to make.

I wasn't confused, I just wasn't expressing myself very well. Neither are you, or you didn't read me very well, since I was expressing exactly the same bias that you posted... and said didn't exist. Most people assume that I got married, and converted later. I can't think of a single person whose asked me how I converted and got married who didn't make that assumption. Maybe as a man, you percieve different assumptions that I do as a woman.

I know Muslim men who marry Christain girls, I know a Muslim man who's married to a Bahai girl (which is haram, in case you were wondering) and they are Desi's too. He keeps hoping that she will change.

[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

I don't accept his bias, I accept that he is biased. There is a difference. I know that you can't "convince" someone to change their religion. At some level, a person has to believe in a religion to change it. That's why you get so many marriages where the woman never changes her religion. The chance that she may stay Christian all her life is one of the reasons why I think muslim women aren't allowed to marry non-Muslim men.

I didn't say that you accepted his bias. I said that you implicitly accepted his premise, because you posted the article and sought to address it based on its premise without challenging any part of the premise.

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

I wasn't confused, I just wasn't expressing myself very well.

No, you were confused. You started arguing a point I hadn't even made: