[Serve]

Originally Posted by TrentReznor858

What is your point? What could come of this anyway?

the widespread belief among Muslims that, whatever the circumstance of our present, Islam had a "glorious past" that matched, if not exceeded western culture, especially during the dark ages.

Nope. "extremism", and the moral black hole that goes with it, existed throughout the history of the Caliphate. Islam was "hijacked" not several years ago, nor even during the 1979 Islamic revolution in Iran, but over a 1000 years ago. islam did not "free peopple from slavery" -- I mean it "did" on the condition that they convert. What kind of freedom is that?


We owe the world, and YES, even the european west, a heartfelt apology.

[Rambo]

the early muslims were against slavery, unfortunatly the later ones continued the arab tradition of slavery.

[Serve]

Originally Posted by Rambo

the early muslims were against slavery, unfortunatly the later ones continued the arab tradition of slavery.

i don't think so. the essay (broken into 13 parts, of which i've linked the 8th) addresses precisely that claim, and debunks it. you're implying that Islam was "meant" to abolish slavery. Afraid not. It still exists in some parts of the Islamic world, and when asked, is justified BY islam.

[dreamdeferred]

A brief glance at the sources used in that article is enough to dismiss it entirely. I don't mean that facetiously either.

[TrentReznor858]

Originally Posted by Serve

the widespread belief among Muslims that, whatever the circumstance of our present, Islam had a "glorious past" that matched, if not exceeded western culture, especially during the dark ages.

Nope. "extremism", and the moral black hole that goes with it, existed throughout the history of the Caliphate. Islam was "hijacked" not several years ago, nor even during the 1979 Islamic revolution in Iran, but over a 1000 years ago. islam did not "free peopple from slavery" -- I mean it "did" on the condition that they convert. What kind of freedom is that?


We owe the world, and YES, even the european west, a heartfelt apology.

Jinnzaman, you really need to get a life

Anyway, without Islam the world would be even worse off than it was today, as they lead the world out of the dark ages (Simple way to put it, but I am too lazy to trot out Islam's history).

[Rambo]

Originally Posted by Serve

i don't think so. the essay (broken into 13 parts, of which i've linked the 8th) addresses precisely that claim, and debunks it. you're implying that Islam was "meant" to abolish slavery. Afraid not. It still exists in some parts of the Islamic world, and when asked, is justified BY islam.

Prophet (pbuh) was against slavery, he didn't abolish it but he definatly cared a lot about slaves. He encouraged people to free thier slaves. Read islamic history and you will find out. I dont care what the later muslims did, they did a lot of bad things we already know that.

[Serve]

Originally Posted by dreamdeferred

A brief glance at the sources used in that article is enough to dismiss it entirely. I don't mean that facetiously either.

of course. you do not agree with it, therefore they are bogus. not like most of the sources have arabic names, and even the ones that don't often CITE arabic names in their arguments.

great scholarship

[Serve]

Originally Posted by TrentReznor858

Jinnzaman, you really need to get a life

Anyway, without Islam the world would be even worse off than it was today, as they lead the world out of the dark ages (Simple way to put it, but I am too lazy to trot out Islam's history).

evidently you are too lazy to put forth a coherent sentence of two, without islam not much would be different, and most likely, better.

[Serve]

Originally Posted by Rambo

Prophet (pbuh) was against slavery, he didn't abolish it but he definatly cared a lot about slaves. He encouraged people to free thier slaves. Read islamic history and you will find out. I dont care what the later muslims did, they did a lot of bad things we already know that.

"Prophet pbuh was against slavery" -- many a reliable hadith beg to differ

[dreamdeferred]

Originally Posted by Serve

of course. you do not agree with it, therefore they are bogus. not like most of the sources have arabic names, and even the ones that don't often CITE arabic names in their arguments.

great scholarship

No you silly sanctimonious jerk.........it's because the authors cited are incredibly poor scholars....by any standard. The only semi-authoritative scholar out of the bunch is Bernard Lewis, an orientalist who's entire philosophy was deconstructed by Edward Said some 25 years ago.

I mean.....this essay cites Robert Spencer as though he's meant to be taken seriously.....a known islamophobe whose scholarly credentials are non-existent.

Try again.

[IbnMardhiyah]

anyone wanna play whack-a-troll?

[Rambo]

read this: Muttaqun OnLine - Slavery: According to Quran and Sunnah

[Serve]

Originally Posted by dreamdeferred

No you silly sanctimonious jerk.........it's because the authors cited are incredibly poor scholars....by any standard. The only semi-authoritative scholar out of the bunch is Bernard Lewis, an orientalist who's entire philosophy was deconstructed by Edward Said some 25 years ago.

I mean.....this essay quotes Robert Spencer.....a known islamophobe whose scholarly credentials are non-existent.

Try again.

edward said was in turn "deconstructed" by Ibn Warraq.

Rob spencer's intentions toward islam are "hostile", however you must admit that he CITES ISLAMIC SOURCES, INCLUDING HADITH AND QURAN. he has an advanced degree in Islamic studies. whatever his sentiment or opinion, his arguments (while certainly not infallible) are not made "out of the blue".

funny how you say they're poor scholars by ANY standard. so you know, and can evaluate scholarship in light of every standard out there? my oh my, why aren't you tenured at harvard?

[Serve]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

anyone wanna play whack-a-troll?

anyone wanna prove me (or rather the author of the blog) wrong? that would be, like, actually, you know... convincing. But you in particular have trouble with that "reason" thing, I know.

[Serve]

Originally Posted by Rambo

read this: Muttaqun OnLine - Slavery: According to Quran and Sunnah

I an read for myself, thanks. and i don't need obviously slanted BS "scholarship" to affect my conclusions.