[roberto]

[quote=Kaminyu;14116]

What exactly do you expect to happen with a state of virtual anarchy? Anarchy anywhere would produce the same results (except maybe "suicide bombing", which people can easily find some other alternative to anyway).

Your confused, you are putting the cart before the horse, the anarchy is the result of the killings and destruction waged by Sunnis and Shira as they fight each other and the insurgence who are seeking anarchy

The troops have almost no control over Iraq, except for that green zone, which isn't so green anymore. Whether the troops stayed or leave, their activities would likely still be going on, with little to no change. The only thing that would happen, would be the removal of the powerless, impotent puppet government that the troops are backing, as well as the inevitable loss of the not-so-green zone.

The presence of troops has prevented all out civil war and of late, as a result of the surge, they have increase their control and reduce the number of incidents.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by MuslimZ

Masha'Allah. Anytime anyone has an opinion or viewpoint different from yours, they're automatically dismissed as part of some larger conspiracy. Believe it or not, this mentality is prevalent amongst the Iraqi people.

Believe it or not, you are wrong.

Living thousands of miles away from the region is an acceptable excuse for not knowing the reality of the situation, I guess. Unlike your country though, my country (as well as other countries in the region) has been receiving Iraqi refugees on a daily basis, even prior to the invasion. Not a single day has passed without me dealing with an Iraqi "refugee" who got settled here not long ago. Every average/low paying job now is being occupied by an Iraqi (not to mention prostitution!). I get to hear first-hand what they think and how they feel. That's much better than a news article from a clueless Western source. I bet the reporter never set foot in Iraq, or met with 5 Iraqis even.

You are wrong to say that Iraqis want the Americans to stay. Even my Shia Iraqi friends, who were very enthusiastic about the toppling of Saddam's regime and his execution thereafter believe that the best solution to the current crisis would be the immediate withdrawal of all foreign troops (and especially the American forces).

If you think Iraqis are keen on having American troops stopping them at checkpoints and eyeing their daughters "for security reasons", you are totally wrong. Iraqis are more insecure today. And to top it off, the US won't even take them in as refugees to demonstrate any sort of good will.

You can think what you want, of course, but you don't need to flaunt it so arrogantly. It just sounds so disturbingly "American", if you know what I mean.

They have no bloodlust or vengenance to fulfill. And you cannot deny the vast majority of suicide bombings and attacks from insurgents have resulted in Muslim Iraqi deaths more than anything else. Just as American media has the capacity to rose-tint and propagate, so too do the so-called Mujahideen bend and sensationalize the truth to capitalize on raw emotion.

I don't even know why you're talking about "mujahideen". Calm down, young man. I think the article is talking about ordinary Iraqis and how they feel about the occupation. That's exactly what they think it is: an occupation.

Ever got a chance to listen to the new Iraqi national anthem? It'll give you an idea of what they think they're in.

"My homeland, My homeland
The youth will not tire, 'till your independence "

Mawtini - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[nooni]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Is this article for real? All the other recent reports seem to be suggesting the exact opposite - i.e. the vast majority of Iraqis want the US troops out, now.

Either they've made a major discovery of thousands of people who have changed their mind since Wednesday, which is quite an achievement. Oh, these silly Iraqis. What would they do without our guiding help, eh?

the article is talking abt Iraqi youth, not the whole general ppl, either way the article is propaganda and ridiculous

Originally Posted by Arabesque

You can think what you want, of course, but you don't need to flaunt it so arrogantly. It just sounds so disturbingly "American", if you know what I mean.

although i agree with ur post immensely, MuslimZ is iraqi. so he probably has closer ties to Iraq and Iraqis than we do.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by nooni

although i agree with ur post immensely, MuslimZ is iraqi. so he probably has closer ties to Iraq and Iraqis than we do.

From what I heard, his background is Kurdish. That's not very much the same, and it may be influencing his perception since the majority of Kurds are happy with the Americans presence, you know. He's also an American living thousands of miles away from the region.

[MossadConspiracy]

The majority of Iraqis believe that The Big Lebowski was the best movie of the 1990's

Ethnic insight and contacts among Iraqis living outside Iraq have confirmed this to me, and I must say I am happy to hear it because it is really a fantastic movie!

[Anderson]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

The majority of Iraqis believe that The Big Lebowski was the best movie of the 1990's

Ethnic insight and contacts among Iraqis living outside Iraq have confirmed this to me, and I must say I am happy to hear it because it is really a fantastic movie!

I watched Office Space and The Big Lebowski after one another on the same night, needless to say it was the best night of my life....

Well in the top five.

[roberto]

[quote=Arabesque;14330]

Not a single day has passed without me dealing with an Iraqi "refugee" who got settled here not long ago. I get to hear first-hand what they think and how they feel. That's much better than a news article from a clueless Western source.

I have cut out much of your post, so as to keep to just one question.

Meeting Iraqis as you do , do you not think, that if the Americans and other forces leave there will be a period of civil war .and likely intervention by other Middle East countries such as Iran?

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by roberto

I have cut out much of your post, so as to keep to just one question.

Meeting Iraqis as you do , do you not think, that if the Americans and other forces leave there will be a period of civil war .and likely intervention by other Middle East countries such as Iran?

If worse comes to worst, there will be an intervention by another Middle Eastern country (authorised by the Arab League, I hope) just like was the case in Lebanon with the Syrian forces more or less in control of the country. The civil war was over, and many Lebanese factions eventually united against the Syrian presence, which ended in 2005.

And yes, they have to go through a civil war, and it will ultimately create a durable peace, just like the US had gone through a civil war before, and European countries too (in the 17th century). Iraqis are very capable of handling their own situation. Unless of course the US decides to make a Yugoslavia out of Iraq.

The only people who might not get anything out of an American withdrawal are the Kurds. Never before did Iraq have a Kurdish President like Talabani. Of course they'll want a longer American presence in Iraq, otherwise all their fortunes will change.

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

If worse comes to worst, there will be an intervention by another Middle Eastern country (authorised by the Arab League, I hope) just like was the case in Lebanon with the Syrian forces more or less in control of the country. The civil war was over, and many Lebanese factions eventually united against the Syrian presence, which ended in 2005.

And yes, they have to go through a civil war, and it will ultimately create a durable peace, just like the US had gone through a civil war before, and European countries too (in the 17th century). Iraqis are very capable of handling their own situation. Unless of course the US decides to make a Yugoslavia out of Iraq.

The only people who might not get anything out of an American withdrawal are the Kurds. Never before did Iraq have a Kurdish President like Talabani. Of course they'll want a longer American presence in Iraq, otherwise all their fortunes will change.

Are you speaking for Iraqis here or personal opinion?

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

Are you speaking for Iraqis here or personal opinion?

Of course personal opinion. DUH

[MossadConspiracy]

well in that case, I think you'll find in your daily dealings with Iraqis that their view of the desirability of an all out civil war in Iraq is much different from yours, you might want to ask them sometime. When it comes to how Iraqis feel about the inevitability of such a war, its a little bit murkier, but from the polls I've seen most of them disagree with you there too. Again, not everybody has daily access to Iraq war refugees, so you are in a unique position to see how much they disagree with you about this as well (or how little)

[roberto]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

If worse comes to worst, there will be an intervention by another Middle Eastern country (authorised by the Arab League, I hope) just like was the case in Lebanon with the Syrian forces more or less in control of the country. The civil war was over, and many Lebanese factions eventually united against the Syrian presence, which ended in 2005.

And yes, they have to go through a civil war, and it will ultimately create a durable peace, just like the US had gone through a civil war before, and European countries too (in the 17th century). Iraqis are very capable of handling their own situation. Unless of course the US decides to make a Yugoslavia out of Iraq.

The only people who might not get anything out of an American withdrawal are the Kurds. Never before did Iraq have a Kurdish President like Talabani. Of course they'll want a longer American presence in Iraq, otherwise all their fortunes will change.

Thanks for your comments

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

well in that case, I think you'll find in your daily dealings with Iraqis that their view of the desirability of an all out civil war in Iraq is much different from yours, you might want to ask them sometime. When it comes to how Iraqis feel about the inevitability of such a war, its a little bit murkier, but from the polls I've seen most of them disagree with you there too. Again, not everybody has daily access to Iraq war refugees, so you are in a unique position to see how much they disagree with you about this as well (or how little)

The ones I've come across do not believe there's a civil war, or that one would happen (though I disagree with them). Most of them believe that the situation will be a lot better when and if all foreign troops leave the country.

They tend to speak of Americans making life difficult at checkpoints. How difficult it is to visit family and friends in different cities, and how useless the public services are. One person told me that, as much as he was ecstatic at the overthrow of the Saddam regime, he regrets the loss of order and the availibility and accessibility of all sorts of facilities, especially healthcare.

One doctor (a Shia lady, whom I helped find a job in DXB) said that the US forces usually block the way of ambulances and stock medical supplies for ages to supposedly scan them when there's already a shortage in hospitals.

I agree with you that most Iraqis probably don't want a civil war, but I can confirm that every single person I've met so far (and they're countless) want the foreign troops out.

[nooni]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

From what I heard, his background is Kurdish. That's not very much the same, and it may be influencing his perception since the majority of Kurds are happy with the Americans presence, you know. He's also an American living thousands of miles away from the region.

Allahu Alim, i always thought he was part iraqi arab part kashmiri... UHM WHERE ARE U MUSLIMZ????

Originally Posted by roberto

I have cut out much of your post, so as to keep to just one question.

Meeting Iraqis as you do , do you not think, that if the Americans and other forces leave there will be a period of civil war .and likely intervention by other Middle East countries such as Iran?

alot better than american intervention.

[Shahnawaz]

What the hell are some of you on. Whatever it is, I would ask you to stop, atleast for Ramadhan.
Incase you have not noticed, there is a "civil war" ongoing as we speak. Bodies turn in Baghdad EVERYDAY. 2/3 of Baghdad have been usurped by malitias, and communities are divided strictly down secterian lines.

I ask, WHAT IS THE US EXACTLY PREVENTING???
The only thing it is succesfully carrying out is its perpetuation, because if the power struggle occured unhindered, it will eventually end with a victor. What we have now is a perpetuation of the war in order to bleed both parties to death, so at the end of it there are no strong parties left.

Some of you seriously relveal your insincerity when you espouse this garbage.