[roberto]

Germany arrests three over 'serious and massive bomb plot'

Mark Tran and agencies
Wednesday September 5, 2007
Guardian Unlimited


Three men have been arrested for allegedly plotting "massive bombings" greater than the explosions in Madrid and London, German officials said today.
Monika Harms, the German federal prosecutor, said the three suspected terrorists had trained at camps in Pakistan and obtained some 680kg (1,500lb) of hydrogen peroxide for making explosives.

"We were able to succeed in recognising and preventing the most serious and massive bombings," she said, declaring it "a good day for security in Germany".

"This would have enabled them to make bombs with more explosive power than the ones used in the London and Madrid bombings," Joerg Ziercke, the head of Germany's federal crime office, said at a joint news conference with Ms Harms.

The Madrid train bombings killed 191 people, and 52 people died in the London attacks.

"This shows that terrorist dangers in our country as well are not abstract but are real," said the German chancellor, Angela Merkel. She said the arrests showed that international cooperation was "of decisive significance in the fight against terrorism".



Citing unnamed security sources in Berlin, the broadcaster Suedwestfunk said Frankfurt airport and a US airbase in Ramstein were among the suspects' targets. However, German officials gave no details on the alleged targets, which were also believed to have included nightclubs and bars popular with Americans in Germany.
The three suspects first came to the attention of authorities because they had been observing a US military facility at the end of 2006, officials said.

All three had undergone training at camps in Pakistan run by the Islamic Jihad Union, and had formed a German cell of the group. The Islamic Jihad Union was described as a Sunni Muslim group based in central Asia that was an offshoot of an extremist group called the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan.

German media reports said around 20 officers from Germany's elite GSG 9 unit had stormed a holiday flat being used by the three, two of whom were German converts to Islam. The third was believed to be from Turkey.

The website of the German news magazine Der Spiegel said investigators made the arrests yesterday afternoon after the men were observed moving chemicals from one storage place to another.

It is believed that the men wanted to experiment with the chemicals and possibly to start building a bomb. They were, however, some way from making a bomb that could be detonated, Spiegel Online said.

News of the arrests came a day after Danish police arrested eight men suspected of plotting a bomb attack and of having links to al-Qaida. They also occurred less than a week before the sixth anniversary of the September 11 2001 attacks in the US.

Frankfurt airport is one of Europe's busiest airports, with 52 million passengers passing through it each year. The Ramstein base, 80 miles south-west of the airport, is one of America's most important foreign bases and is a hub for US operations in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Germany, which has forces in Afghanistan, has been on high alert for attacks. It has been on the lookout for any re-emergence of militant Islamist groups since 2001, when Hamburg was used as a base for planning the September 11 attacks.

In April the US embassy in Berlin announced a strengthening of security at diplomatic and military facilities in Germany in response to a perceived increased terrorist threat.

Last year two men of Lebanese origin attempted to detonate crude suitcase bombs on two German trains, according to German authorities. Prosecutors have said the bombs failed to go off because of a technical error.

[Kaminyu]

Germany arrests three over 'serious and massive bomb plot'

Mark Tran and agencies
Wednesday September 5, 2007
Guardian Unlimited


Three men have been arrested for allegedly plotting "massive bombings" greater than the explosions in Madrid and London, German officials said today.
Monika Harms, the German federal prosecutor, said the three suspected terrorists had trained at camps in Pakistan and obtained some 680kg (1,500lb) of hydrogen peroxide for making explosives.

"We were able to succeed in recognising and preventing the most serious and massive bombings," she said, declaring it "a good day for security in Germany".

"This would have enabled them to make bombs with more explosive power than the ones used in the London and Madrid bombings," Joerg Ziercke, the head of Germany's federal crime office, said at a joint news conference with Ms Harms.

The Madrid train bombings killed 191 people, and 52 people died in the London attacks.

"This shows that terrorist dangers in our country as well are not abstract but are real," said the German chancellor, Angela Merkel. She said the arrests showed that international cooperation was "of decisive significance in the fight against terrorism".



Citing unnamed security sources in Berlin, the broadcaster Suedwestfunk said Frankfurt airport and a US airbase in Ramstein were among the suspects' targets. However, German officials gave no details on the alleged targets, which were also believed to have included nightclubs and bars popular with Americans in Germany.
The three suspects first came to the attention of authorities because they had been observing a US military facility at the end of 2006, officials said.

All three had undergone training at camps in Pakistan run by the Islamic Jihad Union, and had formed a German cell of the group. The Islamic Jihad Union was described as a Sunni Muslim group based in central Asia that was an offshoot of an extremist group called the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan.

German media reports said around 20 officers from Germany's elite GSG 9 unit had stormed a holiday flat being used by the three, two of whom were German converts to Islam. The third was believed to be from Turkey.

The website of the German news magazine Der Spiegel said investigators made the arrests yesterday afternoon after the men were observed moving chemicals from one storage place to another.

It is believed that the men wanted to experiment with the chemicals and possibly to start building a bomb. They were, however, some way from making a bomb that could be detonated, Spiegel Online said.

News of the arrests came a day after Danish police arrested eight men suspected of plotting a bomb attack and of having links to al-Qaida. They also occurred less than a week before the sixth anniversary of the September 11 2001 attacks in the US.

Frankfurt airport is one of Europe's busiest airports, with 52 million passengers passing through it each year. The Ramstein base, 80 miles south-west of the airport, is one of America's most important foreign bases and is a hub for US operations in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Germany, which has forces in Afghanistan, has been on high alert for attacks. It has been on the lookout for any re-emergence of militant Islamist groups since 2001, when Hamburg was used as a base for planning the September 11 attacks.

In April the US embassy in Berlin announced a strengthening of security at diplomatic and military facilities in Germany in response to a perceived increased terrorist threat.

Last year two men of Lebanese origin attempted to detonate crude suitcase bombs on two German trains, according to German authorities. Prosecutors have said the bombs failed to go off because of a technical error.

What an interesting choice of using hydrogen peroxide to make an "explosive". You need to have a large enough concentration of it for it to do anything, and you'd need a tanker to carry that much of it around, for it to be used as such.

It's also a little funny how similar this case is to the one in the UK, where they were also supposedly planning on using a domestic chemical agent (which was traditionally used for gardening) for an explosive, and also got busted because they had such large quantities of it.

Also, what's with this obsession with explosions and civilian targets? How counter-productive that is. It's only after-effect, is that it induces fear and panic for a corporatist government to exploit. What kind've terrorist would want to help a government further its goals?

[roberto]

[quote=Kaminyu;11674]

What an interesting choice of using hydrogen peroxide to make an "explosive". You need to have a large enough concentration of it for it to do anything, and you'd need a tanker to carry that much of it around, for it to be used as such.

Officials said the 35-per cent solution of hydrogen peroxide, stored in a hideout, could have been mixed with other additives to produce a bomb with the explosive power of 550kg of TNT.

It's also a little funny how similar this case is to the one in the UK, where they were also supposedly planning on using a domestic chemical agent (which was traditionally used for gardening) for an explosive, and also got busted because they had such large quantities of it.

Wow sure is funny

Also, what's with this obsession with explosions and civilian targets? How counter-productive that is. It's only after-effect, is that it induces fear and panic for a corporatist government to exploit. What kind've terrorist would want to help a government further its goals?

You can't be serious, it has been the declared aim of terrorist to maim and kill civilians and they have at times succeeded, they are fuelled by hatred and the stupid belief that they can change government policies

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by roberto

Officials said the 35-per cent solution of hydrogen peroxide, stored in a hideout, could have been mixed with other additives to produce a bomb with the explosive power of 550kg of TNT.

Well, I think that's pretty obvious, with such a large concentration of it. However, the issue is carrying it around. It's not exactly something you can hide.

Wow sure is funny

Yes, "funny" in a strange/suspicious way, since it's basically the same basic plot, only with a different chemical and in a different country. Why are they using the same plot, if it was unsuccessful the first time?

You can't be serious, it has been the declared aim of terrorist to maim and kill civilians and they have at times succeeded, they are fuelled by hatred and the stupid belief that they can change government policies

But there are plenty of other ways of accomplishing the same thing without "explosions". It's almost like they're intentionally trying to draw attention to themselves with all of their "suspicious behavior".

[MossadConspiracy]

Its always a ploy to trick people into supporting some policy or another. Until its not.

Then its a conspiracy

[Anderson]

Basically Muslims have been framed for every single terrorist/attempted terrorist attack ever to have happened. Every alledged 'suicide' bomber is still alive and there are helicopters in the sky moments after each attack takes place disguised as news choppers.

[Arabesque]

Muslims should feel proud of their inherent agent-Bourne capabilities. The only thing I don't understand is how they always manage to get caught just before detonating their boms. Like they actually manage to pass all security checks, except the last one.

That's when you know the script-writer messed up.

[Anderson]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Muslims should feel proud of their inherent agent-Bourne capabilities. The only thing I don't understand is how they always manage to get caught just before detonating their boms. Like they actually manage to pass all security checks, except the last one.

That's when you know the script-writer messed up.

Intelligence agencies let them get away with everything up to the final stage of preparation because it will make a stronger case.

Sometimes they get the wrong guys who are then released quietly.

[Ibn Abu Ibrahim]

Originally Posted by Anderson

Intelligence agencies let them get away with everything up to the final stage of preparation because it will make a stronger case.

Sometimes they get the wrong guys who are then released quietly.

Sometimes the intelligence agencies send spies to plant evidence and coerce others into saying/doing things that might suggest terrorist activity.

And sometimes they continue to prosecute because they would look completely inept if they didn't, even though the star-witness/spy openly confesses to being a crack addict throughout, and after the 'investigation'.

It happens.

Honestly though, you can never tell if these allegations are real unless you're close enough to the situation to know what exactly is going on.

[roberto]

[quote=Ibn Abu Ibrahim;11819]

Sometimes the intelligence agencies send spies to plant evidence and coerce others into saying/doing things that might suggest terrorist activity.

And sometimes they continue to prosecute because they would look completely inept if they didn't, even though the star-witness/spy openly confesses to being a crack addict throughout, and after the 'investigation'.

It happens.

Can you please provide substanciated cases?

[roberto]

[quote=Arabesque;11800]

Muslims should feel proud of their inherent agent-Bourne capabilities. The only thing I don't understand is how they always manage to get caught just before detonating their boms. Like they actually manage to pass all security checks, except the last one.

As has been already written it's a matter of maximising evidence and in some case the number of terrorist in the net

[roberto]

Originally Posted by Anderson

Basically Muslims have been framed for every single terrorist/attempted terrorist attack ever to have happened. Every alledged 'suicide' bomber is still alive and there are helicopters in the sky moments after each attack takes place disguised as news choppers.

Yeah sure, you can't be serious!

[roberto]

[quote=Kaminyu;11790]

Yes, "funny" in a strange/suspicious way, since it's basically the same basic plot, only with a different chemical and in a different country. Why are they using the same plot, if it was unsuccessful the first time?

What exactly to you mean by plot?

But there are plenty of other ways of accomplishing the same thing without "explosions". It's almost like they're intentionally trying to draw attention to themselves with all of their "suspicious behavior

How else to you kill , main and destroy without using explosives, not forgetting if it's a suicide bombing the reward of paradise, so they think

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by roberto

Can you please provide substanciated cases?

He was in fact alluding to one, which was the bomb plot in Canada, where Shaikh whatshisname (the crack addict) set Muslims up in some phony bomb plot; the case for which, is slowly falling apart, as more and more suspects are cleared and released.

There was another case with Wajid Khan, who also reported on another Muslim for mouthing off about the government (which is neither suspicious nor a crime).

Yeah sure, you can't be serious!

No, he's quite serious and so am I.

Muslims are being framed for terrorist attacks, and the Anthrax attacks in the US back in 2001 are evidence enough of that.

What exactly to you mean by plot?

Running around with a large amount of a certain kind of domestic chemical product, to supposedly use it for explosives, and raise enough suspicion to get arrested.

How else to you kill , main and destroy without using explosives, not forgetting if it's a suicide bombing the reward of paradise, so they think

Well, destroying buildings and infrastructure, they'd need to use it, but not for killing people.