[Anderson]

Do you really need a sex therapist? Just use your imagination and it'll probably be halal.

[Khairan]

Originally Posted by Anderson

Do you really need a sex therapist? Just use your imagination and it'll probably be halal.

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by Anderson

Do you really need a sex therapist? Just use your imagination and it'll probably be halal.

that's becuase there are really only 2 haram things, and who would want to do those anyway?

[Aryan_]

Originally Posted by Khairan

Two things:
First, I am not dismissing the value of sincerity. This is why my focus is on the idea of labelling, because if you notice I have at no point said there is no value in truly being muslim. My point is that simply judging people based on what they call themselves (which is precisely what is being done above) and not by what they truly believe is superficial and meaningless.

This contention is part and parcel of my second point, which is that Islam is not dichotomous. You are not either muslim or not muslim. We are all in varying degrees of submission, and Islam is ingrained in us. As I've noted above, we are not held responsible for being "kaafir" unless we truly reject Islam -- this is a widely accepted idea within our scholarship with the only true contention being the point at which we know enough to become "responsible" for disbelief. At the same time, we are never excused from holding to a basic sense of our morality. In other words, Islam itself does not equate "good" with "muslim."

In all of these words I fear my essential point is becoming lost in the midst of the side-arguments I'm invoking, so I'm going to state it again: it is absolutely untrue from a spiritual perspective that ONLY MUSLIMS are capable of living moral lives and having their works be recognized by God. This is VERY clear, and I've shown why across my two or three posts above.

I'll keep things simple and respond to the last point you made:

Non-muslims can live moral lives in the sense they can be sexually degenerate, help people across the streets and give starving kids iPods. But that doesn't mean they are moral in the islamic sense. If that was the case, what would be the point in becoming a Muslim?

I know there was a lot of discord among early Muslim scholars on the apparent inclusion in the koran of the "people of the scriptures" as who could enter heaven. But that wouldn't apply to atheists or polytheists, and it would be logical absurdity to do so.

Anyway let's get back to the topic. I sure could do with some sex therapy.

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

that's becuase there are really only 2 haram things, and who would want to do those anyway?

What would those two things be? One is homosexuality, but the other?

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by Aryan_

What would those two things be? One is homosexuality, but the other?

We're talking about forbiden acts in terms of a heterosexual relationship, you know, the kinds of relationships that often need marital counseling.

If you don't know what they are, I'm not going to tell you.

[WarriorAndWiseman]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

We're talking about forbiden acts in terms of a heterosexual relationship, you know, the kinds of relationships that often need marital counseling.

If you don't know what they are, I'm not going to tell you.

Butt... butt why not?

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by WarriorAndWiseman

Butt... butt why not?

Well, one of them is mentioned explicitely in the Quran, the other can be derived from the injuction not to consume things that are unclean. I think that's close enough to telling you without getting in trouble.

[WarriorAndWiseman]

Originally Posted by WarriorAndWiseman

Butt... butt why not?

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Well, one of them is mentioned explicitely in the Quran, the other can be derived from the injuction not to consume things that are unclean. I think that's close enough to telling you without getting in trouble.

I wasn't really asking by the way.

[Songbird]

Originally Posted by WarriorAndWiseman

I wasn't really asking by the way.

So it's just your perverted Shia ways coming to the fore then?

Thought so.

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by WarriorAndWiseman

I wasn't really asking by the way.

Sorry... I'm so used to people seriously asking me rhetorical questions, do excuse me for almost spelling it out for you.

[WarriorAndWiseman]

Originally Posted by Songbird

So it's just your perverted Shia ways coming to the fore then?

Thought so.

When I was talking to AMuminah in that thread I said I am of shia origin not that I adhere to shia beliefs.

Learn to read someone else's post before you start expounding your beliefs in yours. Betrays a certain conceitedness on your part.

Having said that... I know some shias who are far better muslims and far better people than a lot of sunnis... and i know some sunnis who are far better muslims and far better people than a lot of shias.

[Songbird]

Ultimately I don't really care.

You're the one making the crude innuendos. So either start fasting *more* or find a wife [wives, if you're a Muta-loving Shia].

[ChotooMotoo]

You know that in Ramadan you're not only supposed to control your sexual urges, you're also supposed to control your tongue too right?

[WarriorAndWiseman]

Originally Posted by Songbird

Ultimately I don't really care.

You're the one making the crude innuendos. So either start fasting *more* or find a wife [wives, if you're a Muta-loving Shia].

...and your the one making crude allegations.

For someone who doesn't care you sure act like someone extremely agitated with everything around them.

[A_Muminah]

As-salamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaah,

Ahhh, Islamica. How I missed thee.

(We never learn and still act like 13-year-olds ) May Allaah have mercy upon our souls. Aameen

Was-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullaahi Wa Barakatuh